Is this asbestos?

I’ve never heard of them containing asbestos. It’s not the safest thing for other reasons, but at that voltage I wouldn’t worry about it. My toaster has a cloth cord and I use it all the time.

Thanks for the response Mark. I haven’t heard about any asbestos either, but never really thought about it. You are correct though, I know that the wire is a bit of a fire hazard, but I don’t really operate these for too long.

                                                    Trainfam

That is good old fashioned "Rat Wire".  So called because rodents eat the insulation and then shorts can happen, when wires touch the spark can  cause house fires.  Nasty stuff.  Replace it.

Rat wire?  The modern stuff is just as vulnerable for gnawing rodents.  I recently read an article about soy-based insulation used for Tesla wiring attracting rodents, and one of my neighbors was a victim of squirrels feeding in the engine compartment.

When I rewired my house (original wiring installed in 1908 according to an Underwriter's Labs certificate), I found the insulation on post and tube wires inside the walls was intact but where the wires were exposed to air (basement, etc.), the insulation deteriorated.  I find most of my old tinplate accessories have intact wiring but where the insulation crumbles, it needs replacement.  A lot of the old cloth wiring still looks good.  Inspect and decide.

No need to worry about it from a “disease” perspective. Asbestos is only dangerous when airborne particles are inhaled repeatedly, and this risk is amplified by smoking. Shipboard welders, who smoked, in a confined space, constantly exposed to asbestos in the air, were most likely to develop mesothelioma. In almost all other settings, intact asbestos, in paint, or insulation, or brake pads, represents a negligible risk.

From a short internet search.   Click on the underlined phrase.  Older homes, (a lot of homes, in western Pa) would have some form of an asbestos product.  Floor tile, 9" X 9" are suspect. Heating system/duct work with  early insulation. Also pipe covering.  There is an extensive Asbestos abatement industry.  Surprisingly some hard board exterior siding for homes had a small percentage of asbestos. 

NO, the wire wont kill you if you breath in any dust.  I deal with this wire all the time restoring antique radios.  The insulation is too small for anything other than cloth.  It's home wiring pre 1960's that would have asbestos.

Asbestos is dangerous if it is friable (crumbled into dust particles).  If you don't eat you nine inch floor tiles they are not a problem.  Same holds for building siding or roof tiles.  If you make sure all your electrical is disconnected to your layout when not in use a fire is unlikely.

That wire is likely not ACM (asbestos containing material). I would replace it though regardless. The fire hazard is grater that any other risk.

The wire in this controller is ACM however. The difference is that the insulation is whiter in color and more rigid. It crumbles when twisted.

@Bill DeBrooke posted:

Asbestos is dangerous if it is friable (crumbled into dust particles).  If you don't eat you nine inch floor tiles they are not a problem.  Same holds for building siding or roof tiles.  If you make sure all your electrical is disconnected to your layout when not in use a fire is unlikely.

Even if you eat your floor tiles, it presents no risk. Fibers need to be inhaled. Don’t smoke floor tiles, and you’re good to go. The entire asbestos abatement industry is a lawyer driven scam. How many members know someone who’s suffered or died from an asbestos related illness? No one gets my bet. Boomers have been “exposed” to asbestos most of their lives. No harm done.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Even if you eat your floor tiles, it presents no risk. Fibers need to be inhaled. Don’t smoke floor tiles, and you’re good to go. The entire asbestos abatement industry is a lawyer driven scam. How many members know someone who’s suffered or died from an asbestos related illness? No one gets my bet. Boomers have been “exposed” to asbestos most of their lives. No harm done.

Asbestosis and mesothelioma and other related illness are real. I have several colleagues who deal with it on a daily basis.

Yes- the lawyers took it and made a panic out of it.

Casual exposure is not a high risk but in an industrial setting it's a whole different story.

Asbestos can cause problems but the hysteria around it was kind of over the top (which is not surprising, it created an asbestos abatement industry that made a fortune out of the hysteria, they treated it like anthrax). Asbestos as others pointed out is only a problem when the particles are airborn and you breath them in and even if you did breath in from the wires it is so little you don't need to worry about it.

I agree with others, I would replace the wire simply because it is old and the cloth insulation gets brittle.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Even if you eat your floor tiles, it presents no risk. Fibers need to be inhaled. Don’t smoke floor tiles, and you’re good to go. The entire asbestos abatement industry is a lawyer driven scam. How many members know someone who’s suffered or died from an asbestos related illness? No one gets my bet. Boomers have been “exposed” to asbestos most of their lives. No harm done.

I understand your point of view but my old boss died of asbestosis.  The tumors from his lung metastasized right through to his ribs. An extremely miserable way to die I don't wish on anyone. 

Yes asbestos is friable and needs to be inhaled to start problems, but it's not a concern that should just be dismissed.

@jhz563 posted:

I understand your point of view but my old boss died of asbestosis.  The tumors from his lung metastasized right through to his ribs. An extremely miserable way to die I don't wish on anyone.

Yes asbestos is friable and needs to be inhaled to start problems, but it's not a concern that should just be dismissed.

How did he contract it? Mesothelioma is a very rare cancer. Besides as a welder, I mean. And asbestos is not easily friable. It has to be aerosolized in the setting of demolition, or refurbishment, or renovation in a manufacturing or industrial setting.

Thanks for the reply’s everyone. I’ll probably replace the wiring in the accessories but I’ll keep one with the old wire intact so I can have a fully original piece. I do have another post on the form about repairing a 1404. While doing this repair, I took out the solenoid to repair it. I noticed that the inside of the solenoid appeared to have a cardboard looking material. So while we’re on this topic, could the inside of the solenoid be made of asbestos? See the picture below:

I’m probably going to change the name of this thread to “is this asbestos?” Or something like that.

                                                        Trainfam

@jhz563 posted:

I understand your point of view but my old boss died of asbestosis.  The tumors from his lung metastasized right through to his ribs. An extremely miserable way to die I don't wish on anyone.

Yes asbestos is friable and needs to be inhaled to start problems, but it's not a concern that should just be dismissed.

The people who come down with mesothelioma and asbestosis were exposed to asbestos for many years where they were constantly exposed to relatively high levels in the atmosphere. People who mined it, people involved in places processing it, or where they sprayed it as fireproofing (in shipbuilding or even some buildings), were exposed to airborn particulates that do the damage.  One of the problems is that the workers were not wearing protective gear at all, there were no regulations around it.

I don't think anyone is dismissing asbestos as being a serious health threat, I certainly wasn't, and it should of been banned. On the other hand when asbestos was banned and everyone was talking about asbestos, back in the 80's, they were doing things like gutting buildings to remove it. What they figured out was if the asbetos was contained, like sealed in walls or in ceilings, they didn't have to. In some contexts they sprayed cellular foam over it to seal it in.

I lived in a house that had pipe wrap that was asbestos, I had to remove it, and did so safely, it was perfectly legal to throw it out as long as it was in a garbage bag. If the guy replacing the boiler came in and it was there, they would have to call in an abatement firm and it would have been like 2k, for like 4" diameter insulation about 10' or so, all exposed in a garage. I wore a dust mask, the stuff wasn't crumbling. Asbestos is a not a toxic chemical that seeps into groundwater, it is as airborn particulates that it is deadly.

Given the small amount of asbestos in wire insulation, it is highly unlikely you would have problems with it. You old boss probably worked around asbestos industrially where they were breathing in a lot of it for a number of years. Not trivializing what people went through with asbestos, just saying it isn't this deadly thing that one breath of it and you are going to get sick, that's all. In the case of the OP, I would be a lot more concerned that the insulation would crumble off and cause a short, that's all.

@bigkid posted:

The people who come down with mesothelioma and asbestosis were exposed to asbestos for many years where they were constantly exposed to relatively high levels in the atmosphere. People who mined it, people involved in places processing it, or where they sprayed it as fireproofing (in shipbuilding or even some buildings), were exposed to airborn particulates that do the damage.  One of the problems is that the workers were not wearing protective gear at all, there were no regulations around it.

I don't think anyone is dismissing asbestos as being a serious health threat, I certainly wasn't, and it should of been banned. On the other hand when asbestos was banned and everyone was talking about asbestos, back in the 80's, they were doing things like gutting buildings to remove it. What they figured out was if the asbetos was contained, like sealed in walls or in ceilings, they didn't have to. In some contexts they sprayed cellular foam over it to seal it in.

I lived in a house that had pipe wrap that was asbestos, I had to remove it, and did so safely, it was perfectly legal to throw it out as long as it was in a garbage bag. If the guy replacing the boiler came in and it was there, they would have to call in an abatement firm and it would have been like 2k, for like 4" diameter insulation about 10' or so, all exposed in a garage. I wore a dust mask, the stuff wasn't crumbling. Asbestos is a not a toxic chemical that seeps into groundwater, it is as airborn particulates that it is deadly.

Given the small amount of asbestos in wire insulation, it is highly unlikely you would have problems with it. You old boss probably worked around asbestos industrially where they were breathing in a lot of it for a number of years. Not trivializing what people went through with asbestos, just saying it isn't this deadly thing that one breath of it and you are going to get sick, that's all. In the case of the OP, I would be a lot more concerned that the insulation would crumble off and cause a short, that's all.

In late 1971 to mid 1972, I worked at a power generation plant, where many days I worked with our "asbestos man". We took breaks and lunch in his asbestos room where he cut asbestos to fit various installation projects. We had to sweep the asbestos powder off the tables to sit and eat. Everyone I know that worked much time with one of our asbestos men (one at each of three power plants) has died of mesothelioma by 2013, but me. I never smoked, which is probably what saved me. I would come home from work covered from head to toe with asbestos. That stuff sure does itch. My green work suit was mostly white.

We later (I suppose late 1970's or early '80's) began a total asbestos abatement program. Now there is very little asbestos, if any, in the plant; yet everyone is required to take a yearly asbestos awareness class. They take that a single fiber could take your life. They hated it when I had to attend my yearly update. I would say, "Why am I still alive?"

Well hmm,. . . even if it is asbestos, unless you are going to chew on it or grind and inhale it, it is not worth worrying about at all.   Inhalation of large amounts of air borne particles are the real risk.  Small exposure is inconsequential.

Cholesterol  intake and eating burnt meat is a far bigger risk to your health.   :-)