Concrete Railings - how to replicate?

A great candidate for 3-D printing.

 

Didn't Rix products make a nice HO railing? Wish they would  have made them in O.

 

 

I can easily reproduce this in a professional drawing program in 2D and even "extrude" the thing to make a cheap hack 3D version but I dont know where to begin on the real 3D front. I do know some 3D animation guys I work with professionally but they all charge $100+/hour unless I can get this as a favor somehow. They use 3DS MAX, MAYA, AutoCAD, etc.

 

How do these 3D printer outfits figure out the costs for this kind of thing? Not sure where to turn for a thing like this but it could be sort of fun as long as it doesn't end up costing a fortune.

right now I can get free set up time,  but its operator cost and material that is a little pricey.

 

If you could get the cad model .... and I

 

Ah ha.... Ah ha....

 

 

 

I agree, perfect for 3D printing.

Carve it in pink foam, then skim-coat it with drywall compound. To get the cutouts consistent, make a template and carve with a rat-tail file.

I'd be interested to see what the original drawings look like.  I'm a 3D mechanical draftsman.  We use AutoCAD for our 2D and CATIA (used a lot in aerospace) for 3D.

The drawings are unfortunately not all that instructive for my purposes - they mostly detail the structural underpinnings which I'm not modeling. As someone who knows this stuff, if I were to draw the basic shape outlines using a tool like Adobe Illustrator would that be of any help to someone? I've primarily worked with 3D animators and supplied them 2D artwork in Illustrator and Photoshop to create and map to objects. Note really sure how things transfer.

 

 

Bob - those do look nice - is that from the mold you mentioned previously?

 

I like your Ameritown buildings in the background. I just found an unused Amazon.com gift card and ordered a bunch of their buildings. Looking forward to giving those a try.

Bob

Looks great. How tall is it to the bottom of the railing? This is standard height from crow or did you modify?

 

wow, you have hit on the head a major architectural feature that will be used extensively on my layout.  all the days of trying to picture and now i can see it. if there is any way to get my hands on some railing , i will get in line with the rest of the guys. i love what you did with your concrete pillars. i was mulling over a couple of different styles derived from what i have seen in various areas of the 5 boroughs. i like what you did .. simple , yet with nice detail. one question... now high did you make that second level? look about 9 inches?

Bob - thanks for the closeups and detail shots. Your work is beautiful. Photography too.

 

I'd gotten all wrapped around the axle with the mention of3D printing yesterday. I spent last night fiddling around with some programs and even was able to create some of what I would need but after a good night's sleep it occurred to me that personally, this hobby is about getting away from the computer and making things with my hands. 

 

I need to resist the lure of technology which is hard for me to do - I spend all day making things on computers and technology consulting. 

 

I'm going to take a look at the Crow River offerings. I dont need as much as you worked into your layout so I might just buy what I need and skip the molding / casting process since I've little experience with that.

 

Thanks for sharing your work - it's a great inspiration.

I checked out Crow River and they sell just the railing which is perfect. The end blocks on the prototype with the date carved in will be a fun part of this. Another street (seen in the background of my original image I posted) was redone in 1920 and is of a slightly different style but they did do a really cool curved portion (attached).

 

All this concrete is old and crumbling now and has a great look to it. The trick will be replicating that look.

 

 

bob- thanks very much for your details.  did you cut out each of the triangular gussets?what did you use?

 

You might ask Crow River if their railings can be curved if heated either by boiling water or with a heat gun.

I used a hair dryer.  Heat gun takes a bit of finesse.  They curve fine right-left.  Getting them to go up hill and keep the slots vertical is a problem. But I really would like to figure out how. 

 

 

Your railings looks like Crow River Railings

 

 

Pretty sure that copying Crow River's copyrighted works is not a good idea.

Wouldn't that only apply to somebody reselling these as their own? I would think for personal use that wouldnt apply.

 

(not an actual lawyer or even pretending to be non-attorney spokesperson here...) 

I used the RIX product in HO and used a length of square plastic underneath to provide additional height.  That effectively doubles the height and appears appropriate to the task. 

Actually, that's not true. You can't, for example, steal movies even for personal use (although if you have a legitimate copy, you CAN make further copies for certain purposes, such as backup or time-shifting). The same applies to all copyrighted material.

 

OTOH: Copyright law only protects "creative works". You couldn't, for example, get a copyright on a mold of a stone, since you did nothing creative to it. A beautifully sculpted original rock formation might be a different matter. Where is the line?  That is why God gave us juries. A model of a generic bridge railing (no matter how well-done) is not likely to meet the criterion of a "creative work".

 

The fact is that a whole lot of things that people claim as "copyrighted" are in fact in the public domain.

Wouldn't that only apply to somebody reselling these as their own? I would think for personal use that wouldnt apply

So it's fair use if I copy a movie for myself it's ok and if I make 1000 copies of the same movie again for myself it's ok.  Not really! 

 

In economic terminology that has become orthodox in fair-use case law, we may say that copying that is complementary to the copyrighted work (in the sense that nails are complements of hammers) is fair use, but copying that is a substitute for the copyrighted work (in the sense that nails are substitutes for pegs or screws), or for derivative works from the copyrighted work, is not fair use.

 

However, practically speaking it is unlikely that Crow River will send letters regarding the infringement. However, OGR has not encouraged coping of their store fronts in molds. 

 

So let me understand this... I purchase something and like it, so I duplicate it in some way for my own use and that's called "stealing?" The object in question was initially purchased. 

 

Even Apple has relaxed the rules on music and I can make a copy for my own usage.

It looks like Alan answered my question while I was typing mine.

 

 

Agreed.  But, as I said, it depends entirely on what is being copied. You can't simply assume that everything that is sold is eligible for copyright. For example, if an OGR storefront were an exact replica of a real building, then it would not be eligible for copyright (indeed, it may arguably itself be an infringement of the the building's architect's copyright). Such a copy would not be "creative". But, assuming that the storefronts are "made up" rather than copied, then they certainly are subject to copyright and may not be legally copied.  Again, a common highway railing would be very hard to protect.  "Fair use" arguments only come into play once copyright protection has been established.

FWIW, because of the person posting the pics, I'm placing an order for Crow River's kits which I wouldn't have known about if it weren't for him. I only need about 6 kits so I wont be making molds...

 

And by coincidence, speaking of OGR, the mailman just delivered a big old box of Ameri-towne Storefronts and kits I ordered earlier this week. Nice.

Ditto here, and thanks.

The WPA-style concrete railings are just what I needed for a piece on the layout.  Not even Plastruct makes them.

 

SJS

 

http://www.cccrow.com/main-pages/how-to.html

If you read this i believe he explains the copyright questions and how he feels about copies of his work and im sure others feel the same.

Crow River doesn't want you to copy his designs;

 

which is why I purchased lots of railings from him. They are not expensive. 

I don't know how much this adds to the discussion, but here goes:

As a photographer, i've gotten a fair understanding of copyright law, and it really amazes me the casual disregard many(most) people have for the property of others.  That is what copyright is all about.  No one is stoping anyone from creating their own work, but simply copying another's for gain or personal use is questionable at best.  I've gotten to the point of refusing sales when I know the work will be copied.  In the eyes of the law, and a good clean conscious, there is no difference in walking into the movies with a camcorder, scanning and printing a copy of a photograph, or making a mold off someone else's casting.  

Then again, in society today we frown on those owning intellectual property, and expect to be given free access to everything.  

 

"The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave."  -  A.R.

 

What amazes ME is that people make grand pronouncements (in both directions) about what is and is not "legal" or "ethical" with regard to intellectual property, without first taking the time to understand what does and does not count as IP. I have huge respect for the wisdom of intellectual property law (I own a fair amount of IP myself). But, IP law is a balance--giving rights to both property owners and to society as a whole. Both are important. Stealing somebody's creative efforts is abhorrent. But, making a miniature copy of a 1930s WPA balustrade and selling it as your own is NOT the same thing as creating a new building design (whether full-size or miniature). If I make a copy of some WPA design, does that mean that I now OWN that design?  Of course not. If somebody then makes a copy of my copy, is that any different from their making a copy of the original?  Not according to the law. You may think that unfair, but that is that law, and I think if you think it through you may see that it makes sense. I say we should all respect other people's property, but we should also respect the public domain.

Pete

 

Copyrights (thanks to the folks at Disney) last 100 years and more past the life of author. OK so did Crow River base the design on an old style balustrade? probably, but that in-itself does not affect his rights.

Instead, his design is his creative interpretation of an old style balustrade; that is what makes Crow River's balustrade his copyrighted work.

 

For example a movie about a boy from uptown meeting a girl in the wrong neighborhood and failing in love that creates a war between the towns is not in-itself copyrightable. However, West-Side Story is copyrightable as its a unique interpretation of that boy-meets girl story.

 

Just because you buy a CR balustrade and an OGR storefront does not mean the authors have given you rights to make copies.

 

 

I started this thread just wanting to replicate on O scale a nearby concrete railing and it's devolved into a discussion over copyright issues. Great and all by has nothing to do with my purposes.

 

I suggest maybe contacting the site owners to see if a new forum can be created for legal topics. 

 

After all this I dont even give a #$@! about the thing I was originally interested in.

Hang in there Tim. I think we all had threads that are beyond our doing...

 

 

When you get the set from Crow River Products restart a new thread. Would be good to see what your making.

Tim

 

I reworked the reverse( flat)  side of the CR endblocks so that it was similar to the detailed side. I did this because I have a long roadway where both sides are visible.

Use Precision Board (see my post March 2nd, Precision Board, Scratch Built) You can cut or carve to any shape you want. Enclosed are pictures of projects I have done with PB. Use a drill for the top and bottom curves and a jig saw to cut the remaining parts of your bridge rail.

 

 

This is my O scale bridge from Crow River.

 

 

 

 

 

 

here is my crow river railings on a supporting steel structure that supports the roadway.

i drilled holes through the end-blocks and attached light poles.

See this thread.

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...68#41271598933917168