Connecting two PW transformers in series to get extra power

That's a great train table by the way.

I've never really heard of anyone connecting two transformers directly to one loop. The normal practice is to break the loop up into as many sections or "blocks" as you have transformers. Thus, two transformers would mean that you divide the loop into two electrically isolated blocks and connect a transformer to each block. Thus, one is never taxed with powering the entire loop.

I agree with Graz. But if you did that sometimes it is hard to have the voltage the same in the blocks so you could end up with up and down control of speed through those blocks. Have you considered the possibility of just up grading to a larger transformer be it a new one or used one. Running just the engine and maybe a caboose does not drain power like a engine and set of lighted passenger cars..............Paul

Lionel Power House PH 135's, and PH 180's, (Brick type transformers), were designed to hook in Parallel , more power.  There is a connecting part. Can easily put 15 amps (Parallel 135's) to 20 amps Parallel 180's available for track power.  Note that in either case, you can also do track arc and spark welding with de-rails.

These two PH180 parallel connect to the TPC400 (Track Power Controller) on the right.  Note the connection adaptor that goes from the Molex connector on the PH180's to forked spade connectors bottom of the TPC.  The output of the TPC is available at about 20 amps. 

Drummer3 posted:

Does anyone put two tranformers in series to operate 1 loop?   I have a lionel 2055 PW steamer (whistle and smokes) pulling 3 MTH fully lighted passenger cars.   With the 1033 transformer by itself, the train goes medium speed at max throttle.   When I connect two 1033's in series, it gives the train a lot more speed.  I barely crack open the first 1033 (I guess to 5 volts?),  and then use the second 1033 to operate.      Also, related to this, I have placed 2 bridge rectifiers just before the motor that drops the voltage (I guess by about 3-volts?? )  thus giving more voltage to the smoke unit and whistle relay.   This helps the engine smoke better at normal speeds, not having to run it full speed.    Here is my newest Lionel Amtrak Silver Spike video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXEodHDg2hg  

The bridge rectifiers/diodes in series with the motor are an issue. Different smoke fluid might give you better smoke output without all the diodes for voltage drop to the motor, then your 1033 transformer would perhaps be adequate.

Otherwise it would seem simpler and better to get a single bigger transformer with higher amp and voltage ratings to run your train with the desired speed range.

The bridge rectifiers/diodes in series with the motor are an issue. Different smoke fluid might give you better smoke output without all the diodes for voltage drop to the motor, then your 1033 transformer would perhaps be adequate.

Yes, Lionel sold lots of train sets that included a 2055 and a 1033.

PLCProf:  If you have sweaty hands & touch the track @32VAC, you will feel the power!

I think it would be better to get another, larger transformer.

PLCProf posted:

If you turn both throttles up to full, the track voltage will be around 32 volts, which may give you a little surprise if you touch it, but I wouldn't consider it hazardous at that level.

He'll also fry the electronics in any TMCC or Legacy locomotives for sure, and probably most conventional models that have electronic reverse units.  I suspect that DCS locomotives probably wouldn't like voltage that high, though they will handle up to 24 volts or so.

Seems to me that if a 1033 can't supply enough power to run one loco and 3 lighted cars, the amperage drain must be more than the transformer can handle and output voltage is dropping as a result.  The OP doesn't show any track voltage readings.  So I assume that adding the extra voltage from another transformer will increase the amperage even more, and cause an overload of both transformers.  Ace is right:  forget this nonsense and get an adequate transformer.

Trust an ancient Lionel circuot breaker?

The original printed manual for the 8604 783 Hudson shows two 4090's(modern 1044/1033) wired in series with the 2nd transformer used for it's 5 volt fixed winding to boost the output to 21 volts total... more voltage, of course, but still limited to 4.5-5 amps.

The online manual at Lionelsupport.com has been revised with this section deleted.

If the rails start glowing and smoking, you know that you have gone a little too far.

Hmm interesting, never thought of using two transformers in series before.  Can someone post a crude wiring diagram showing which posts are being used?  Or perhaps Rob can you scan your original 783 instruction sheet?

Off-topic, but when Lionel designed their electronics for 18V max, they threw away an easy opportunity for improved performance (along with a little of their heritage, which includes transformers exceeding 20V output.)  

Use of a 24-volt motor, in conjunction with a 24-volt supply would have given smoother starts with the slack stretched, because there is a less drastic increase of the total system voltage at the point when the motor goes from stalled to turning.  LGB used 24V Buhler motors in conjunction with a 24VDC supply for years, to good effect.  3-rail O gauge is notorious for not having any real "standards," but if I were to set about creating some, for performance as well as historical reasons, I would have recommended at least 22VAC as a maximum for all equipment.

Trust an ancient Lionel circuot breaker?

Any postwar Lionel transformer should be checked out before being used. That includes testing the breaker.

I like and recommend using external, manual reset breakers.

I don't recommend using transformers with metal cases.

As posted earlier, the engine would probably run fine without the rectifiers.

I read that a Lionel Z transformer can put out 25 volts. Can someone confirm this ?? I use a Z on my first floor dining room layout but I don't have a good voltmeter.

I read that a Lionel Z transformer can put out 25 volts. Can someone confirm this ?? I use a Z on my first floor dining room layout but I don't have a good voltmeter.

The Lionel service manual gives the range as 6 to 24 volts.
But there is no whistle control. Add a Lionel whistle control, and the voltage is reduced by a choke that is part of thr whistle control circuit.

A 1033 has a maximum output of 15.5 volts.
Switch to an LW or RW and the max is 18.5 volts
A ZW goes to 20 volts.

Here is a two page Lionel chart: page 1   page 2

Thanks. I really don't use my whistles  so no problem.  Had a nice LW but gave it to my older son to run his Standard gauge set I gave him. I just use a 1033 I picked up somewhere for testing.

Thanks for all the input friends.  My main idea was to have my 2055 PW engine to output a decent volume of smoke going at normal speed, and not flying off the curves.   Hence, placing 2 rectifiers/diodes before the motor would make the smoke element hotter.  It is a new aftermarket smoke element.  

I have read that the lionel CW80 transformer causes the PW engines to noticeably increase the smoke and  head light brightness during normal operation due to the chopped sine wave, so I will try one at a hobby store before I buy.  

My MTH Railking PS1 Hudson has the same issue.   Smokes great in neutral, but hardly smokes when running at normal speed.  

So my experiments and tests continue.    I may need to "switch tracks" soon and get some newer PS2 and PS3 engines.  Meanwhile, I am looking for an MTH Mowawk  Railking PS2  (circa year 2000).  30-1165-1.

My channel:   https://www.youtube.com/user/zdrummer72

 19150dava

Mike CT is correct.  Put the two transformers in parallel.  Search the internet for the specifics.  Transformers must be phased and identical.  Output voltage of each at the same level.

The wattage of the transformer combo is twice the rating of a single transformer.  Reduces voltage drop when the load increases.

Would you accomplish the same thing with a dual throttle transformer, but wiring both sides to one track?

Steve

I am curious- try it !!

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Would you accomplish the same thing with a dual throttle transformer, but wiring both sides to one track?

Steve

NO!  All the conventional dual throttle transformers I'm familiar with will deliver their rated power to any of the throttle outputs.  For electronic transformers such as the MTH Z-4000 or the Lionel ZW-C, they specifically mention not connecting the outputs together.

Fully agree with the gunrunner.  Disagree with CSXJoe.  Putting 2 varoable output transformers in parallel is an invitation to serious problems.

Others have suggested going to a larger transformer as best solution.

BUT, if you are so enamored or want to retain the 1033 for whatever reason, consider using a Variac autotransformer to jack up the line voltage into the 1033 that in turn will raise the output voltage to the track. 

My lab Variac will raise the input about 16% so household 120VAC in will give about 140VAC out.  Nominal 1033 transformer output is supposed to be 16V (with 120V in) so 16% more raises output to about 18.6V.  Of course if your household voltage is higher or lower than 120V then the 1033 output will also vary proportionately .

Best and wisest bet new or used larger transformer .  Also safer in case junior/ess decides to turn both those 1033 black handles full up to see how far daddy's rare $1500 engine can be launched airborn.

I have noticed lately that my trains seem to run better later in the evening when electrical demand is lighter. I do know that sometimes power companies cut back on voltage in their lines sometimes. I would check out my incoming power before trying to wire two transformers in parallel.