Converting Proto-Sound 2.0 To TMCC

Expensive if you want sounds.  But Cruise CDR and Railsounds from ERR.  G

Since he only runs TMCC, that is probably why the conversion thoughts.

@GGG posted:

Expensive if you want sounds.  But Cruise CDR and Railsounds from ERR.  G

G,

I don't really care about having sound on that engine,  I just want to run it in TMCC. 

Any part numbers for the needed equipment would be helpful if you have it handy.

Thanks!

Robert 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Since he only runs TMCC, that is probably why the conversion thoughts.

Gunrunnerjohn,

You are correct I'm 100% TMCC but MTH in a fine product as well.

To do the conversion you will need either the ERR DC Commander OR the ERR Cruise Commander. Either will do what you want, but most here will agree that in the long term you would be happier with the Cruise Commander. The ERR by 3rd Rail Website has descriptions of both and installation manuals. Both gunrunnerjohn and ggg on this site can most likely quote prices as I couldn't find them on the ERR site.

R. Whitely:

With the same background thought as yours in mind, I recently arranged a "brain transplant" for my MTH SW-1500 diesel switcher from MTH DCS to Lionel TMCC with sounds through GunRunner John. He did an excellent job at what I considered a fair price ($378 including S&H). The loco now responds perfectly to TMCC, and I'm a happy camper!

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

I would think that a Mini-Commander II for 2 couplers would work just fine. 

Jan

The MC-II for small units works fine, but... no cruise.   Also, since this is an MTH, it has dual motors, and just might be marginal for the MC-II, they're rated at 2A max, and I've seen more than one fry in similar usage.

MC-II: $75, Cruise Commander: $130.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The MC-II for small units works fine, but... no cruise.   Also, since this is an MTH, it has dual motors, and just might be marginal for the MC-II, they're rated at 2A max, and I've seen more than one fry in similar usage.

MC-II: $75, Cruise Commander: $130.

Is this a complicated installation if I go with Cruise Commander?  I have never done any major repair on TMCC engines before but I do consider myself fairly mechanical with fire protection equipment installation background.

John, I have a K-Line A-B-A with dual motors in each unit, would I need 3 cruise commanders?

@R Whitley posted:

Is this a complicated installation if I go with Cruise Commander?  I have never done any major repair on TMCC engines before but I do consider myself fairly mechanical with fire protection equipment installation background.

With a Cruise Commander you only have to strip a few wires and insert them into screw terminals. If you want working electro couplers you will have to get some new ones as the ones you have may damage the CC due to their lower resistance.

Go to electricrr.com and download the manuals and see whats involved.

Pete

Pete is correct, don't use the PS/2 couplers, they're 1/3 the impedance of the Lionel ones and will take out the R4LC coupler triacs after a few activation's.  It's a pretty simple install, you shouldn't have any issue.

I would like to add an MTH PRR H-10 to the roster, but I to use Legacy for control of the layout. I'm not

keen on adding DCS and have wondered if the conversion could be made. This engine is available with PS-3,does

this make the conversion more difficult/easier. What components would you suggest? Thanks, Mike 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete is correct, don't use the PS/2 couplers, they're 1/3 the impedance of the Lionel ones and will take out the R4LC coupler triacs after a few activation's.  It's a pretty simple install, you shouldn't have any issue.

Is the listed parts below from ERR all I need since I want be doing sound?

The link below is the manual I assume that illustrates the installation of the Cruise Commander Kit.

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rd.../CruiseCmdr-Inst.pdf

1 Pair

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will I need this ?

If you want electrocouplers, you'll have to add those, and the Cruise Commander is the only other thing you need.  Note that the existing bulbs on your PS/2 unit are 6V bulbs, you'll have to change those for 12V bulbs or add a resistor.

Your images didn't come through, so I don't know what you were trying to show us.

@PRRMike posted:

I would like to add an MTH PRR H-10 to the roster, but I to use Legacy for control of the layout. I'm not

keen on adding DCS and have wondered if the conversion could be made. This engine is available with PS-3,does

this make the conversion more difficult/easier. What components would you suggest? Thanks, Mike 

You can convert virtually anything to and from TMCC and PS2/3.  I've gone both ways.

Note that for steamers, going to TMCC will be more expensive as you have to manage the smoke, PS2/3 does all that on the board.  So, in addition to the ERR Cruise Commander and ERR RailSounds Commander, you will need to add that capability.  For TMCC steam smoke management and chuff generation, I naturally use my Super-Chuffer II and my Chuff-Generator.  There are other solutions, but this is what works for me.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you want electrocouplers, you'll have to add those, and the Cruise Commander is the only other thing you need.  Note that the existing bulbs on your PS/2 unit are 6V bulbs, you'll have to change those for 12V bulbs or add a resistor.

Your images didn't come through, so I don't know what you were trying to show us.

Will the "Universal LED's" that operates off track power work on the Cruise Commander? I have some of them that were purchased from Evans. This engine doesn't have a smoke unit so could I add a Red Flashing Strobe Led since it's a engine with a "Fire Theme"?

Where is the best source for electrocouplers that have them available for quick shipment?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete is correct, don't use the PS/2 couplers, they're 1/3 the impedance of the Lionel ones and will take out the R4LC coupler triacs after a few activation's.  It's a pretty simple install, you shouldn't have any issue.

Can this be overcome with a relay of some sort? Or is replacing the couplers the only option?

@R Whitley posted:

Will the "Universal LED's" that operates off track power work on the Cruise Commander? I have some of them that were purchased from Evans. This engine doesn't have a smoke unit so could I add a Red Flashing Strobe Led since it's a engine with a "Fire Theme"?

Where is the best source for electrocouplers that have them available for quick shipment?

The Evan's LED's should work fine.  If you want the strobe to be activated by the smoke control, just connect it to the smoke output of the Cruise Commander.

I'm not sure where you can get "quick shipment" electrocouplers.  I can order them, but then I have to wait for them and ship them to you.  Probably more direct to just order them from ERR, they have standard 2" couplers.

@rplst8 posted:

Can this be overcome with a relay of some sort? Or is replacing the couplers the only option?

I suppose you could use a relay, but couplers are only $10, is it really worth screwing around with it?  Also, you'd need a power source for the couplers as track power is WAY too high voltage for the low impedance MTH PS2/3 couplers, they work on 6V.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The Evan's LED's should work fine.  If you want the strobe to be activated by the smoke control, just connect it to the smoke output of the Cruise Commander.

I'm not sure where you can get "quick shipment" electrocouplers.  I can order them, but then I have to wait for them and ship them to you.  Probably more direct to just order them from ERR, they have standard 2" couplers.

Installing a flashing red headlight would be different and neat since it's a fire engine.  I have those on hand and other styles from Evans LED's.

I do appreciate your help and you amaze me with the wealth of knowledge you have.  From my short time on this forum you are definitely one of the go to guys. The hobby would not be where it is today without folks like you and others on this forum.

THANKS!!

Please, I'm blushing!   We have a lot of talent here, I do what I can.  Electronics is my game, so I'm certainly more at home with those kinds of questions. 

I'm ready to start my 1st ERR Cruise Commander installation tomorrow in a Proto-1 engine. I have already stripped out all the boards and isolated all the wiring that I will need for this installation. I will not be installing sound to begin with. However, I do have a few questions for you all.

*Can I use the existing electric couplers?

*Can I use the existing smoke unit? If so any modifications needed?

*I would like to use the existing LED Lighting and I'm wondering if they will operate off the CC Board without adding resistors?

*Finally, I need to be educated on resistors"like when and where to add install them".  Converting DC LEDS to operate from Cruise Commander board and track voltage?

Thanks in advance and I have learned so much from this Forum! 

No to the electrocouplers, you need the Lionel or PS/1 couplers.  The PS/2 couplers are too low impedance and will cook the coupler triacs.

You can use the existing smoke unit, but of course you have to supply an independent 5VDC supply for the smoke fan as that's supplied by the PS/2 board.  You also need to change the resistors as the 8 ohm resistance is intended for much lower voltage operation.  I use one 20 or 22 ohm resistor in those units for TMCC.

You need resistors to power LED's from the Cruise Commander, I use 470 ohm resistors, and note that the frame ground is positive and the headlight output is negative.

What is the voltage output on the front and rear direction lamps circuits on the Cruise Commander?

The voltage is half-wave track power in command mode.  If you're running 18V on the tracks, assume 12 volts on the lights and you should be fine.  If you're running in conventional mode, it's full-wave track power, so it's whatever the transformer is putting out.