Could use some advice powering a layout

I am not the best guy to answer this but maybe I can get a discussion going. First off, what kind of track are you using?  This answer goes in the category of there is no such thing as too much information.

Second, I hope I am not being trivial, but you will need a selection of insulator pins or an insulator track section. I am not too sure about the second since I don't use FasTrack hence the reason for the first question. 

Next you say that you want to run conventional simultaneously. Sorry to say but you will need a second power source (variable or fixed output) and a second powermaster. One set will be the fixed 18 volts on the track for the TMCC or legacy locomotives and the other set will allow for a variable voltage for your conventional locomotives. Now thinking, it Mar be possible to run both powermaster from your one existing power source, but I will leave that answer to one smarter than me since it will depend on what the total current draw would be. 

Now I would also suggest that you may want to invest in some Block Power Controllers. This would allow you connect the powermaster to any available block that you have. You can look on Lionel's website to see how these work. You will also find with some work on the internet that the street price for these units to be $100 per unit. The more blocks you have the more BPCs you will need. Each unit assuming two power sources to switch will control four blocks. 

I now think I have given enough information to you for your consideration and ideas that others can react to. I will continue to monitor this thread to answer your anticipated questions and to see what other kick in as information. 

Thanks for the help Jim,  this is good information. I have not yet ran a set up with power blocks.  I understand it in theory, I guess, I am just a little confused as to the practical application. What exactly happens when a train crosses from one power block to another?  Does the BPC automatically transfer power from one block to another as it is crossing? Also, if I have a BPC and I am using one powermaster, will that allow me to run two blocks,  or do I need two power sources still? 

To your question regarding crossing power blocks, your *to" and "from" block should come from the same power feed. I worked for GRS for a while in lifetime, and how dispatchers would work as a train entered his subdivision he would assess the priority of the train versus the priority of others under his control. If it was a train like the "Queen of Los Angeles" there was absolutely no reason for that train to stop or even slow.  I mention this for one cause, it is I feel interesting and two how you should react. The easiest think to do is to align your route totally  You would do this by assigning through the use of the BPCs all the blocks to the appropriate Transformer/Powermaster pair. And to another question, no it is not an automatic process. The BPC assuming that you are using two Transformer/Powermaster pairs can control up to four blocks.

To another question, the answer is it "Depends". For instance let's take a Postwar ZW. (if we are talking about a Celebration ZW or the New Legacy ZW that would require a whole other discussion) it has the capability of supplying up four separate outputs. Now you could use two of the four outputs to feed your two (at this time I think you have one) Powermaster. Now what must be remembered is you have a limitation of supplying over the four outputs a maximum of 275 watts (earlier postwar ZWs will only supply 250 watts). So what this all means is if your running Postwar locomotives they take a lot of watts to move. You add to this a long drag of Postwar passenger cars all lighted and then add another similar train running from the second output, you may find the transformer shutting down because your pulling too much power (greater than 275 watts) from both of the two outputs. 

Man am I verbose.  Also I had to use a number of brackets due to there are numerous caveats and this answer is not all that straight forward. I think at this point we should begin at the beginning. That would be setting up your blocks. I can't remember exactly what your layout looks like but I think that it was two loops with a couple of cross overs and a passing siding. I believe you would like some continuous running. With that in mind I would isolate the two loops. Do this by inserting isolation between the two switches that create the crossovers. 

How did you create the track layout. Did you use either RR-Track or Atlas's layout programs? If you did I could reserect my program s and insert the block delineation points. 

Loose-Caboose posted:

To your question regarding crossing power blocks, your *to" and "from" block should come from the same power feed. I worked for GRS for a while in lifetime, and how dispatchers would work as a train entered his subdivision he would assess the priority of the train versus the priority of others under his control. If it was a train like the "Queen of Los Angeles" there was absolutely no reason for that train to stop or even slow.  I mention this for one cause, it is I feel interesting and two how you should react. The easiest think to do is to align your route totally  You would do this by assigning through the use of the BPCs all the blocks to the appropriate Transformer/Powermaster pair. And to another question, no it is not an automatic process. The BPC assuming that you are using two Transformer/Powermaster pairs can control up to four blocks.

To another question, the answer is it "Depends". For instance let's take a Postwar ZW. (if we are talking about a Celebration ZW or the New Legacy ZW that would require a whole other discussion) it has the capability of supplying up four separate outputs. Now you could use two of the four outputs to feed your two (at this time I think you have one) Powermaster. Now what must be remembered is you have a limitation of supplying over the four outputs a maximum of 275 watts (earlier postwar ZWs will only supply 250 watts). So what this all means is if your running Postwar locomotives they take a lot of watts to move. You add to this a long drag of Postwar passenger cars all lighted and then add another similar train running from the second output, you may find the transformer shutting down because your pulling too much power (greater than 275 watts) from both of the two outputs. 

Man am I verbose.  Also I had to use a number of brackets due to there are numerous caveats and this answer is not all that straight forward. I think at this point we should begin at the beginning. That would be setting up your blocks. I can't remember exactly what your layout looks like but I think that it was two loops with a couple of cross overs and a passing siding. I believe you would like some continuous running. With that in mind I would isolate the two loops. Do this by inserting isolation between the two switches that create the crossovers. 

 

How did you create the track layout. Did you use either RR-Track or Atlas's layout programs? If you did I could reserect my program s and insert the block delineation points. 

Great info! Here is the picture of the layout. It was designed using SCARM track planning software with the help of another member on the forum. I think I will need 4 blocks total. 2 for each loop, 1 for the passing siding on the outer loop and 1 for the sidings in the middle. Knowing where to place the blocks would be very helpful.

So, just to try and wrap my mind around power blocks. If, for example, all my trains were TMCC and there was enough watts supplied to the track, then there would be no need for power blocks because I would just be running constant 18 volts across the entire track and controlling trains via the command base, is that correct? If that is correct thinking, then I would only need to be able to shut off power to parts of the track where I would be (basically) parking a train or engine for a period of time. So would I still need more than one powermaster/transformer pair?

Everything you said in your post is correct. Running just TMCC simplifies everything. Adding even the blocks you mentioned is arbitrary since the locomotive that is not active would show no signs of life until addressed. As a matter of fact when I designed my layout I thought I would be running conventional. So I added Blocks to my design. This is my third layout and since completing it have never run any of my conventional locomotives. So when I power my layout I turn on all 16 blocks. Right now I probably have ten or eleven locomotives sitting on various sidings and I really only run at most two or three.  The others just sit.  TMCC and Legacy locomotives are so much more interesting to run because of Railsounds. And to answer your last question you would only need one transformer/Powermaster pair. Now I should mention as long as you do not run simultaneously and you don't mind removing and adding locomotives you could again without blocks on the same layout also run one conventional locomotive if you really had a desire to run conventional. But again I ask Why. The newer electronically controlled equipment is so much more fun. Leave your conventional stuff as wall trophies. Well it is a little after 1:00 AM where I live so I think I will go back to sleep now. 

I was having heart failure as to why I was rambling on in my previous posts. I was wondering why I was off in left field with my long disertations. I went back to your original post and I did read that you wanted to run TMCC and conventional simultaneous

Jim, you were right, I did ask about running both.  My previous post was just to try and compartmentalize all the information. My thought process was that if I was building a permanent layout I should try and include both command and conventional. However, now I am thinking it might be a fools erand based on your reply. I only have one conventional loco anyway and it is the one I let my kids run so they don't break mine  haha. 

Look at page 30 of the complete guide to command control (attached) It explains how to control a conventional train with the wheel of the remote (Cab-1) and then switch to Command control for TMCC engines.

You have to be careful the kids don't press boost and launch the engine

Well you are correct that it will be easier and as I stated you can trade out the locomotives and change the Powermaster to conventional to run your children's locomotive. It may be wise to start slow. As I stated I am on my third layout and on each one I expanded my knowledge and complexity.