"Crud" from new Atlas track

Maybe you should clean it with Simple Green  Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear steel wool will remove that

I cleaned the crude off the pickups with iso. alcohol.  

 

A Bright Boy eraser takes off the black off the center rail top easily and quickly.  I did all of it in about 20 minutes, then just for safety's sake vacuumed the whole track.    

Boy I tell you Lee, for a guy who only runs conventional to keep things simple you sure can over- complicate everything else in regard to an o guage train. Legacy or DCS would be a walk in the park............. I think.

I use a sctochbrite pad,then a clean rag with alcohol on the top of the black rail. I wish Atlas would leave the center rail shiny. Plays havoc on rollers with any make train I have.

 

Dale H  

Good one Rick O!!

I am using Atlas track with a mix of gargraves, its been 4 years of lots of running and no dirt or "crud" build up.  Can you confirm the source of your dirt? Do you have ceiling tiles installed?   Do you oil your rollers? Something is causing the dirt to coagulate and buildup.   Before you Scotch brite your track, try to find the source.

Yep, that will do the trick nicely!  I always use a Brite Boy or similar track eraser to remove the black coating off the top of center rails (all brands of track that have a blackened center rail) and then follow-up with track-cleaning fluid and a clean scrap of cloth.  A very fast and simple process.

Gotta feel bad for Lee, last person I remember having this many problems while trying to relax with their trains was Scrapiron Scher.

 

Once he dropped the 765 off the rails things seemed to get better for him

New, out-of-the-box Atlas track still has the machining oil on it. It's electrically conductive, but will make your rollers and wheels filthy. Also, the center rail blackening compound eventually wears away (onto your rollers.) A Dremel with a wire brush will clean it off just fine. We have a bench grinder in the staging room with a wire brush for this purpose. It makes quick work of dirty rollers.

Lee, it's possible that the track was coated with an oil or other substance to protect it from rust. It's always a good idea to clean new track.

Oh there is no doubt about it: its clearly the "black" coming off the center rail's top.  I guess I should have been clearer about that - I knew the cause as soon as I saw the crud.  

 

But to confirm my thinking, before I Bright-Boyed the center rail to remove all of the black and leave it shiny on top, I compared the center rails on my new loop (total running time for all trains on it, maybe 90 minutes) and a piece of new track that I have yet to install on the other loops.  The center rail on the installed track (that with 90 minutes of running) was noticeably less black than the new uninstalled center rail.  it was still black, actually gray in places: some track pieces seemed to be coated much thinner - some pieces would be half shiny, most though were just lighter shade of black.  The new unused track was blacker than any of the track that had been run on, though.  

 

If I waited long enough and cleaned enough pickup rollers, I have no doubt that the rollers alone would eventually wear the center rail shiny.  However, 20 minutes with a bright boy did the job well.  

 

Final proof: Remember, originally (before cleaning the rail) in just 20 minutes of running the Atlantics where coated with crud to the point it stuttered, etc.  I left it running while we BBQ'd, ate dinner and watched the evening news - over an hour and a half - about five times as long.  I shut it down and checked - the rollers were  spotless.   

 

I reported this because I imagine it happens with all new Atlas track.  My track came from the same factories as anyone else's.  My advice would be to Bright boy the top of the center rail clean as you install it.  I didn't.  Interesting result, and certainly not fatal if you don't - a little elbow grease to clean things up and problem fixed.  

Lee, you're an engineer. Do you or anybody else on the Forum have any idea exactly what Atlas uses to blacken their center track? It must be something that's electrically conductive, otherwise trains wouldn't run on it. Just wondering................

Paint?  Powder coating is more like it, maybe?  Not sure.  

 

It is a very thin coating, whatever it is, that is for sure - comes off so easily - you really do not have to work hard with a bright boy, and its not that electrically conductive - when built up "thick" (say as thick as a sheet of paper) on rollers, it definitely does not conduct electricity.

It is not paint or powder coating it is a chemical blackening process.

"It is a very thin coating"

except on their switches where it is much thicker.

you were warned about this.  

Nickel silver rail is a copper alloy which is copper, some nickel and some tin.  The nickel slows down the oxidation rate.  The center rail is chemically blackened (rail is exposed to a chemical bath that accelerates oxidation).  The blackened rail is then coated with a thin protective layer of oil to slow down/stop the oxidation process.  

 

There is some irony to the fact that the unblackened track develops a conductive oxide coating while the blackened track is much less conductive (unless you remove the blacked material and the protective coating).  Tin plating on tubular track also has a protective oxide layer that is conductive but the oxide is grayish black and slightly greasy/slipery.

You sure seem to have more than your share of problems with your layout and trains. If mine caused me anywhere near the issues yours cause you, I'd pitch em out the front door! I rarely (maybe once a year) clean my track and the only issue I've had recently was a broken traction tire which took all of ten minutes to replace.

I have had the same problem with Atlas O track.

 

Andrew

Once the center rail is cleaned off, it works fine. I've used Atlas O since 2006, without a problems. Of course your mileage may vary.

I never take the black coating off my Gargraves track, if I wanted a shiny third rail I would buy it that way.

I had similar problems with my new Atlas track - erratic running of some locos and all locos picking up black crud on the rollers.  I also still run only conventional as my layout is not yet complete. 
Based on several threads on this forum, I began removing the black coating from the top of the middle rail with a green Scotchbrite pad upon installation of the track. No problems since.

Phil

"I never take the black coating off my Gargraves track, if I wanted a shiny third rail I would buy it that way."

 

i believe gargraves uses a different process. 

Lee, have you ever thought of switching to slot cars? 

Don

I had no build ups but unsteady performance with Legacy locos on Atlas.  I tried wiping all rails with a CRC product which I don't recall the number.  Everything worked better.  Much better.

 

Also kept the black rail black.  A feature I liked.

I believe it is a process called patina.  I believe it's a chemical reaction with the metal using a specific liquid.  I use to do it in art school in my stained glass class.  Made the metal from silver to black, copper or golden color.  I still have some left that I found a few months ago and wiped some on my spare fastrack section and it turned the rail black.

I believe gargrves uses a type of electroplating process, similar to anidynizing. You can color metal any color similar to bolts on engine dress up kits for show cars. I have very little dirt build. Up with this track. Ross is similar to gargraves as well.
I did check some of the Atlas track tonight, and the center rail does have a more textured coating applied to it.

My layout is all Ross track and switches.  I have had no problems with dirty rollers and the black center rail is still black.

Live Steam?? NO CRUD???  Surely you jest!!

 

While there's no electrical pickup problems on a center rail anymore in switching to live steam (No need for the center rail, either.  Hey, Lee, you could fasten Atlas 2-rail track to the top of the Atlas 3-rail track on top of the Lionel Fastrack!!) my observation of guys/gals at live steam meets...especially the smaller, non-riding sizes...is that they spend a lot of time oiling, wiping, oiling, adjusting, oiling, tweaking, oiling, greasing, oiling....and that doesn't add up to...."crud"???  I understand that they also add some sort of oily stuff to the water to keep working surfaces such as the piston and cylinder walls lubricated.  So the steam generated is somewhat oily...lands on the tracks and everything else around it.  Wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe....!

 

OK, OK...maybe 'crud' is too harsh a word to a live steamer.  How about 'residue'

 

Or did I misjudge what I was observing at the live steam meet???

 

Hmmmmm.....

 

KD

 

 

 

 

After reading this thread while I am in the process of making a small Christmas layout and installing new atlas track, I decided to try and clean the top of the center rail with Lacquer thinner. ( I know NOT RECOMMENDED) . The black crud was able to be removed using the thinner, a small coarse cloth and elbow grease. This left me with a center rail that appears to be blued. I like the fact that the center rail still appears to be hidden. Also today was a beautiful day outside here in the northeast, meaning I was able to work outside sitting at the picnic table.

Interesting!

 

I have all Atlas track, close to 1000 feet, and although a few feet, maybe 60 or so, have lost the center-rail black on top from wear and my occasional cleaning, most of it is just as out-of-the-box. And yes, I run DCS and Legacy without problems.

 

After reading this thread I checked the pickup rollers on one of the diesels I use all the time, and this is what I found. Rather clean, don't you agree?

  

 

Alex

Yes, rather clean.  Your track is not new, I assume (I saw pictures of it in OGE some time back didn't I?).  I think the residue that comes off from new comes off in only the first few days/hours of running.

 

People seem to have reacted to this as if it was a problem.  I didn't post in that way.  I thought I was interesting: when new a lot of the black comes off the top rail.  Easy to clean off the track and since I did my center pickups look like you.

 

Not to go off on a tangent, but with things made in China it could very well vary from batch to batch. The exact chemical used to blacken the central rail, how long it was left in the bath, how well it was rinsed after its bath and how clean the bath was to start with could all effect the final batch. So the fact it it is happening to one person and not another is not surprising in that regard. Regardless it is good information to know if it starts happening to me, so thanks Lee for sharing.

I also interpreted this thread as good information and was very glad you posted. It was on the same day I was arranging my track on my layout and very convenient for me before screwing down my track to be able to clean the crud off the center rail. (and there was crud there) Thank You Lee.

I would not use steel wool, as suggested above, to clean any track.  There will be no end to the tiny steel shavings you will leave behind to clean up.  It could cause more problems than you have now.

.....

Dennis

K-Line had a great idea with their Shadow rail track. While they blackened the center rail, they left a thin line of unblackened rail right at the top of the rail, a strip so narrow that it's hard to notice. That's what the rollers touch, and since that strip is bare metal, conductivity problems and crud problems are eliminated. Of course, with flat rail, that wouldn't work, but it would be interesting if someone would try making track with blackened slightly rounded rail just for the center rail, using K-Line's method, and flat track for the outside rails. That would be the best of both worlds.

 

It seems I've heard in the past that Ross and Gargraves track don't generate the same level of problems as Atlas track with the blackened rail. Any further information on that?

 

yes they use selenium dioxide, 9 the stuff peoples use also on their gun,  MicroEngineering sell a solution of it.