Curve Size Survey- please respond!

@John A posted:

This information may help manufacturers in the real world.

Good participation for your requested survey,

...but after 3 pages of responses I'll admit to not knowing what it's all worth to a manufacturer...in the real world. 

All Fastrack in my 9' x 12' layout. Inner loop is 048 min, outer loop is 060 min. Crossovers are 072 switches, sidings are 060 and 072 wye switches. No issues running my Legacy DD35A, LC+2.0 Big Boy, MTH smooth sided 19" passenger cars, or Williams 20" superliners on this layout!

Thanks to everyone who responded. I was surprised at how the majority of layouts (who responded) have 072 as the minimum. I was hoping more operators would have smaller radii, possibly influencing manufacturers to make more smaller rolling stock offerings. Interesting results! JohnA

O-72, for me, I  want to be able to run just about anything with a decent length train behind the locomotive.

I have nothing tighter than 0-72.  Lionel/MTH give me fixed pilots on diesels.  I would have more diesels if they did.  I hate the look of the swinging pilot.  Understand why you would need it on tighter curves but that's not a issue on my pike.

Widest curve is one small section of O-54.  But all switches are O-31… so that’s the limiting factor.

Jon

O72 and o42 set up long term.   Holiday and temp layouts may go down as low as 031.

I decided to use some of all available FasTrack Curves and Switches.  So the curves range from O31, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, and 96.

“O” profile:  O42 loop, O31 loops, O31 switches

”O27” profile:  O42 loop, O34 loop, O27 loop, O27 switches

@John_A, time for a tabulation of the responses to your survey?

@Lou1985 posted:

Just wondering but how will this help manufactures? There are some physical requirements for scale size models that keep them from going around certain curve sizes. Maybe 50% or hobbyists have maximum curves of 031. That's fine and all, but no one is going to physically be able to make a scale size Big Boy run on 031 curves.

I Agree. Its pretty well established if you want the scale 3 rail and two rail target market, your loco/ rolling stock product needs to make 072 curves as a minimum.

For traditional 0 gauge market, the loco/rolling stock needs to meet 031/036 as a minimum.

Inner loop is O-48 and outer loop is O-54

I currently have one shelf layout and ten (!) portable table layouts. The shelf layout features an O36 FasTrack  kidney. The largest table layout is 45" x 55" and hosts an MTH O42 oval. Others include postwar Lionel O27 tubular, O31 FasTrack, and O31 MTH solid rail.

Three of the table layouts are dedicated holiday layouts, but the others each feature a particular theme and era. Only one of the others (32" x 64") features traditional equipment; others run scale. I had to modify the pilot of a Sunset ATSF 2-8-0 to handle O36; otherwise I usually stick with Lionel motive power since it is usually engineered for toy-train radii. The O42 layout is dictated by Lionel's Reading T-1 (6-18006). The shelf layout can mechanically handle Lionel's Frisco Mikado (6-18030) and ATSF PA (6-18952), but the latter looks especially bad coming out of a curve towards the viewer. I mostly run a Lionel FT set (6-24568 and 6-24570).

I run no passenger cars, but I do have a dozen brass cabooses that I've modified for small-radius three-rail where necessary.

If manufacturers wanted to sell more equipment to those of us without expansive basements or spare barns, they would do well to follow the example of Lionel's 2-6-0 (6-38019 etc.): small radius, great sound, and fidelity to several surviving museum prototypes. Unless the hobby is irreparably atrophying, I would think that offering a thousand scale moguls would be better for us all than offering a hundred Yellowstones or soulless modern diesel behemoths.

Of course, if you model the Pennsy (three of my table layouts) you have your choice of whatever you want and if you're modest (the switchers, 4-4-2, 4-6-0) they'll run on O42 or less even in brass. Prolific cabin choices, too. But we don't NEED more Pennsy: we do need classic small locomotives especially for western roads with waycars to match.

My two cents.

Bob M.

O-27 gauge tubular, with O-27 and O-42 curves.

@RDM posted:

Unless the hobby is irreparably atrophying, I would think that offering a thousand scale moguls would be better for us all than offering a hundred Yellowstones or soulless modern diesel behemoths.

Well Bob, Lionel did offer a really nice Legacy Mogul, but they screwed it up and had to take most of them back!   I rescued one of the surviving examples and fixed it.

@Keith L posted:

@John_A, time for a tabulation of the responses to your survey?

I was just thinking the same thing

Yup. Got one of those B&M bodies a fellow New Englander put on a Wabash mechanism.  I wanted to use it as a stand-in until I found the CN version. I don't know much about the original run, but I began to be suspicious when I saw the rarity of these locos showing up. Too bad: they really are the best answer to mainline steam for a small layout. In my dreams Lionel will offer them again in an affordable, reliable conventional version with great sound . . .

8 X 20    with 0-72 and some 0-84 as easements.

Main outside turns are 072, with a few 060 leading to 046 under a mountain and therefore not visible.

O-81 Atlas

Thanks to all who have responded.  It looks like the majority of respondents use 072 or larger, which scale sized engines require, so the market for large engines is well established. However, I too hope for more smaller scale engines (and continued semi scale units). I was surprised to learn of the number of large radius layouts being built. JohnA

John, I suspect the preponderance of O72 and larger is because many of us have had smaller layouts and realized that they limited what we could run.  I'll admit it, I'm a sucker for big steam, so O72 or larger was mandatory on my new layout.

@John A posted:

Thanks to everyone who responded. I was surprised at how the majority of layouts (who responded) have 072 as the minimum. I was hoping more operators would have smaller radii, possibly influencing manufacturers to make more smaller rolling stock offerings. Interesting results! JohnA

It's a Big Boy World John.

John

So I see!  My layout (49 x 4) with 042 curves limits me to smaller engines. I’m happy many others can utilize bigger curves/engines.  I remain satisfied with my semi scale trains.  Something for everyone! JohnA (living in the little boy world)

So far I've put together O72 and O96 loops. I plan on using no smaller than O72.

Here’s a re-post of my now re-named

Buffal-O31 Terminal

JohnA

I could certainly live with O42 if I had to, but I didn't have to, so I didn't.

@Craftech posted:

It's a Big Boy World John.

As long as you’re pushing it around with a diesel it is!

0-42 curves and switches.  I've always used 0-42 because they seem to work best with my room sizes (medium) and most everything I buy that's 0-42 fits the limit of what I am willing to pay for a new engine ($750 max; average, $350-$550).  I admit, some of my engines (i.e. MTH Premier E8's) hang over quite a bit on curves, but it's the limitation I've accepted.  My new train room is much longer than wide so it isn't a problem.  I can see why 0-72 is the most popular here because that is the sweet spot for a quality layout if you have the space.

O-42.  Fits the room and keeps the budget in check.

Tom

Typically O-90, a few O-72.

some flextrack but mostly sectional.  I use Atlas track

@Craftech posted:

It's a Big Boy World John.

John

Unfortunately the UP Challenger and Big Boy both seem to have such exaggerated overhang on curves they "clean off" a wide swath of scenery on the layouts I've seen them running on even with O108 curves.

O-36 and that was a big step up for me to graduate from O-27 in high school.  I finally got access to all the fun O-31 trains.  This was before Lionel made Fastrack in O-31, so I went straight from O-27 to O-36.  I have an O-72 wye switch for sidings.  I'm a fan of the big steam but unless it comes in Lionmaster, it's not much use to me.

Though most of my curves are O-31, I am in the process of installing and O-42 loop around our city scene.

FWIW, I started a spin-off thread entitled "Traditional passenger cars on curves", so that we don't get too far off the original intent of this thread

063 outer and 054 inner at home and the club uses 072 and 081 Gargraves.

I have 036, 031 and 027. But then again, I don't run scale--I run toy trains.

You should see how great traditional size trains look on 120 super elevated curves.

I had wanted to build 3 4'x 8' tables for a total of 12' x 8' which would have allowed 0-72 or 0-84.

Unfortunately, size limitations held me to 12' x 6' so my widest is 0-60.

Since most of my trains are traditional Lionel or MTH Railking they look just fine on 0-60.

042 plus one loop of 072. I run mostly PW/traditional plus a Lionmaster Big Boy/ Challenger/Cab Forward with a few scale freight cars. My passenger cars are 12/15/18 inches. Switches are PW 022