Curved Edges vs Straight Edges for Layouts

More work,  looks more natural. Up to you. JohnA

Curved edges look elegant, especially when they are paralleled by the trackage. Replacing the curved edges with straights increases the table area and creates more space for structures and scenery on the layout.

MELGAR

Personally, I'm glad that Tom Tee beat me into submission and got me to use curves, it really does change the whole look of the layout.

Yup... curves are a lot more work ...but, my wife loves them.  You should wind up with a little more space for creative scenery/buildings with the straights.

Curves are a lot more work if you want to actually build a curved tabletop. Many of these are true works of art. But, if all you care about is nice curves, it is quick and easy to cantilever them out over the edge of a rectangular table. I frequently do this using pieces of scrap lumber. Not pretty, but it will all be hidden by scenery and drapery. I remember old Lionel literature instructing us to use cheap scrap lumber so we can send more of our money to them.

@Avanti posted:

Curves are a lot more work if you want to actually build a curved tabletop.

Yep, as you can see in the posts in my build thread, creating a truly curved layout turned out to be way more work than I ever imagined!

New Train Room Finally Getting A Layout! (Last Update: 02-12-2021)

I do have to say, the end result is really cool.

My layout was originally all straight-sided, but now it has a few bump-outs cantilevered off the sides to add curves. Sweeping curves look good if they have significant radii.

So far I've seen common threads in the answers..."it's a lot of extra work", "it's aesthetically pleasing and elegant".  (It's a good thing I have a small army of Bosch routers.)  As far as shrinking space for scenery, I hadn't planned on putting much scenery or buildings on the edges anyway (except for the so called back area), as they would obscure the running consists.  For the back area, it would be a straight edge with trees and a small burm anyway.

@Avanti (Pete) - There is a fundamental in your layout that caught my eye which has been another consideration of mine (except on a larger scale), so don't be surprised if I reference you in a future post.

Anthony

It depends on your track plan and what and how many room(s) you have to work with. Rectilinear layouts are easier to build, but they can overwhelm the space within a room and they can be "square" looking, no pun.

My current layout features an around the basement cantilevered wall system with island peninsula, and I chose to curve the vast majority of the edges except for the obvious need for tangent sections. It is a lot more work but I wouldn't do it any other way. I can maneuver within my basement and everything flows nicely. FWIW: I used both spliced plywood (splicing on radial saw) and bendable plastic lumber available at most home depot type stores, all secured with drywall screws to extensions screwed into the layout frame. Some under construction photos below...I am in the process of covering the fascia with foam wall sections (3rd picture) that resemble a stone viaduct. I've since laid track and sceniced much of these areas and need to snap some more photos of the progress.

No extra work if you buy benchwork

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Curved or straight - same effort.  I use 1/8 Masonite attached with drywall screws for the fascia. Straight fascia or track is boring... gentle curves are more natural.  IMHO

Curves can make a narrow area look much larger.  They also give the viewer a sense of being an explorer as they walk through the layout.

David.   Love the distance perspective on your layout.  So realistic

Curves just look terrific. Blends in nicely with the room. Yep, I’m getting my saw out. I’m sold.

From one who has straight edges, if I were to do it all over again from scratch, I would definitely do curved edges, which look much better IMO.

Dave's fascia looks like steel plate fastened with rivets - interesting and appealing look - artistic and very suitable for industrial dioramas. If it is steel that would take some serious counterforce to hold that bend. I am curious to what material it is.

FWIW: I had the opportunity to visit both Tom Tee and GunrunnerJohn from the forum last year, and see both of their under construction layouts, each one a unique work. Tom showed me a scrap piece of bendable plywood, which easily bended in my hands. I recall it was about 5/16" to 3/8" thick. I believe it is a special order item, my local stores don't carry it. Had I known about this product before I built my curved sections it would've saved a great deal of work and time. As noted before, other wood and plastic materials can be bent, but I have to say the bendable plywood was amazing to hold and bend in my hands; very little force needed to be applied yet it seemed strong.

Very handsome layout, Dave. Love the fascia.

@David Minarik posted:

Curves can make a narrow area look much larger.  They also give the viewer a sense of being an explorer as they walk through the layout.

I like the illusion of riveted steel.  I remember seeing them in your shop.  The paint job is especially convincing.

As my feeble memory recalls, it's masonite with styrofoam half-spheres.  Have you ever done an article about creating the effect?

  I'm going to agree with wgb pete.  Curves are no more difficult than straight...it's all the same process.  Clamp the section to the benchwork, countersink a few holes, then screw.  Unclamp, move down the line, and repeat.

  I left the 2X4 benchwork "open" at corners, and cut the plywood & 1" foam top to the desired radius.  The 1/8 hardboard I used finds its own center around the curve.   Easy.  

Tom

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Personally, I'm glad that Tom Tee beat me into submission and got me to use curves, it really does change the whole look of the layout.

Yep, Tom is a big supporter of curved edges and I see you also used squares under your Miannes legs. I used 3" x 3" pieces of plywood.

Mike

The round ones have teeth on the bottom and a recess for the leg in the middle.  The squares were just cut from the same 1/2" multi-ply and a recess for the leg in the middle.  The square ones were used where the 1" thick round ones were too high.  My floor varies close to two inches across the whole 24 feet, that's why I needed both sizes.  There's also the high point where there is no support, just the adjuster screwed all the way in, that was the place all the other leveling was done to.

Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts and photos.  Here is a general response.

@FlyPlanes-PlayTrains (Tom) - has a layout more along the lines of what I was originally thinking in terms of curved edges.  However, the "french curve"d layouts are very pleasing to the eye and they almost give the impression that they are literally floating in the air.  This is esp. true of wbg Pete's layout.  This is one reason why it is probably best for me to do a virtual layout to start with and make adjustments from there.

I noticed several layouts in the mix that run along the walls.  My personal choice is not to do this and confine the layout to an island.  I like being able to walk completely around the layout without any interruption in motion.

@wbg pete (Pete) - At some point in the upcoming week(s), I'd like to reference you in an upcoming post regarding your mountain ridges.  I'd like to get more information on how you constructed them along with how you were able to cover them in so many trees.

@David Minarik (Dave) - Very nice background art.  I have anticipated placing actual 12ft scenic posters/prints (available from eBay) at about the same  heigh as the layout.  As mentioned earlier, I do not plan to run the layout along the wall and the effect may not be as good.

I may try get a small sample of this flexible plywood to play with.

Anthony

Plywood is available in "wiggle board" and can be a great substrate to finishing with plastic laminate. Note that it is designed to bend on one axis so best to have it bend over the 8' length of the sheet rather than the 4' width if you are going to strip it.

A little less than curved.

Note:  I am not in the benchwork business anymore.  My jigs and fabrication tables are sold and my shop has been turned into another totally unrelated hobby use and I am very busy in an insurance activity.  So please do not view this as any advertising inducement.

If you check out an old photo gallery of mine that is lingering on line you may get some curved benchwork building ideas.

For a great supplier of curved benchwork  I would recommend Oman's vendor, Custom Benchwork.  Their prices are so reasonable I would buy my own  layout from them.

If square, rectangular &  straight lines are your thing you can not beat Mianne.  It is a wooden Erector Set.  Quick, easy, sturdy.

Gun Runner's layout build has a step by step guide on how to take a rigid angular layout frame work and trick it up to save space and add charm,

www.curvedbenchwork.net

I find one of the main advantages to layered constructed using laser scored and cut acrylic to PolyBak is the the time savings during painting. In the first sample below, the outer of three PolyBak layers used for the windows is painted the base color of the cast concrete color for the building. The outer layer is then pealed and stuck on the painted 2-layer sashes. The main elevation of the building is .125" acrylic and it has an .060" layer on applied to give the detail around and between the windows.

This second sample shows the development of our upcoming Downtown Building #1. Instead of vector scoring the linework, the ashlar block lines are raster engraved to show greater width. Instead of a straight cutout for the window, there is a minor indent at each ashlar block joint so the joint wraps wind opening return. The outer layer of PolyBak of the window insert will be a cast stone color. The inner two layers will be the sash color. There will be half round between each window placed between the pedestal points.

I don't like to have track along the edge of a layout, as Avanti has above, since floors can damage locomotives.  Where they are close, I place a barrier.

Anthony, FWIW: I started my current layout as an island-type ~ about 15' long by 9' wide with drop-river for full access capability. My design criteria were wide diameter tracks, full access to tracks & scenery, and an overall size that didn't overwhelm my relatively small to medium sized basement. But, after installing tracks and running trains it became boring (for me) fairly fast, even with switching and an industrial line along the river. Island layouts are great for viewing and walking around, but in the end the track plan became the critical element.  I am not discouraging you or island designs...they're great for watching trains run around, which is what probably the majority of people like to do.

My initial island layout before modification:

I am about to build a new layout in my garage and was just thinking about this very thing!  Will definitely go with curves.

Slightly off topic: in many of the beautiful layouts pictured, I see access to the interior areas using a double truss bridge.  Are those duckunders or are they removable?  If its' removable (I've seen a Lionel bridge that supposedly is good for that), how do you maintain power to the track?  And how much of a hassle is it make the tracks meet up without derailing the trains?  I'm a noob at all of that stuff and just have no idea.   Thanks

@Alec_6460 - Did you notice that David's bridge is actually a gate?

No I didn't.  How hard is THAT?  I want to do an around the room layout, but I would need access to the interior area given my room constraints and desire to have wide curves for big steam engines.  I simply have no idea how to make that happen and don't want to be on my hands and knees crawling under table tops all the time.  

@Alec_6460 posted:

No I didn't.  How hard is THAT?  I want to do an around the room layout, but I would need access to the interior area given my room constraints and desire to have wide curves for big steam engines.  I simply have no idea how to make that happen and don't want to be on my hands and knees crawling under table tops all the time.  

I did an article in OGR on the gate.  I will be writing a future article on different entry options.

Here is a liftout that I just did for Allan Miller.

Thanks, Dave.  That is beautiful work.   I will look for your past article and look forward to the next one.

Is that something you build for other people?  

@Alec_6460 posted:

I am about to build a new layout in my garage and was just thinking about this very thing!  Will definitely go with curves.

Slightly off topic: in many of the beautiful layouts pictured, I see access to the interior areas using a double truss bridge.  Are those duckunders or are they removable?  If its' removable (I've seen a Lionel bridge that supposedly is good for that), how do you maintain power to the track?  And how much of a hassle is it make the tracks meet up without derailing the trains?  I'm a noob at all of that stuff and just have no idea.   Thanks

Susan Deats has a detailed "how to" on her website.  She is an real thinker and doer.

My approach is a bit different.  I find the Atlas 40"  bridges to be on the fragile side of life, so I build a tray which is the actual lift out.  For indexing the bridge position I use square brass dowels from Freedman manufacturing.  They are a male/female combo which are screwed into the benchwork and bridge subframe.  If I make a lift out valley I use a 5 degree angle on each end.  I will try to find some photos.

There are many very good ways to have lift outs.  The swing out ones are the best.  These are some of the lift outs which I have done:

Removable pierThree subframes set in placeSquaredowels and twin magnetsRelocated bridges

Close up of the dowels and installation tool.

Note the 5 degree lift out angle.

Kill switch for the approach tracksAnderson Power Poles for total lift outsThrough power for both tracksBridge rails are not dependable IMOI install a short fitter piece glued to the trayOvernight weight to assure alignment

Tom, can you point me to a source for those brass pins?

The brass would work nicely for electrical

Freeman Manufacturing & Supply Co.

Great info here.....thank you to all for sharing your knowledge and experience!

Peter

To get power to the110 volt outlets every 6' and the many track circuits around 190 feet of walls I ran four wire molding chases around the basement exit door frame.  No wires on the floor.

That allows each lift out bridge to have one rail powered from each end, so only one brass dowel needed at each end.

I find a small rat tail file is helpful for final fit of the brass dowels.  I also use a 90 degree drill  jig to make a good plum hole.  Use a pilot drill so the finish drill only cleans up the wall.  If you go in with the final drill first you can experience drifting.

Try different final drills first in scrap wood.  Hard wood takes a slightly larger bit, soft wood takes a slightly smaller size.  If you screw up simply glue in a 1/2" wood dowel with some Titebond like you can see I had to do when I misplaced a hole in photo above and do it again.