Cutting Railroad Ties: Brag or Fact?

Manny- with the correct size stock to begin with, I could make fast work of this. Home Depot has a good selection of small hardwood trim strips.

Yes- a hobby saw would be advisable over a miter saw, use a fine tooth blade either way.

Just set up a stop on the fence of the saw so that each piece you cut is the same length.

Once you get rolling it should go quickly. Toss them right into a tray of dark stain and by the time you are done cutting they will all be a nice uniform color.

As far as X pieces in X minutes? Work at a safe pace, not worth losing a finger over.

Imagine the look on the ER Doc's face when you tell him what you were cutting......

Bob

Thanks for that advice Bob.

The problem I see with using either a table saw or a miter saw is that once the fence is set up to make the correct length of cut, the actual step of shoving in the strip and cutting it off would go pretty fast, but you would have to stop between each and every cut to "clear" the cut-off piece out of the way, off of saw base top, and off the work table top into a bucket or something.  And, you would not want to use your fingers or hands to sweep that piece out.  You would have to use a clearing stick.  It seems to me that this would be agonizingly slow.  :-O

Mannyrock

Don't think so but I'm speaking from my own experience of over 40 years in the construction and building management industry.

Try it out....Life is a marathon, not a sprint.....

It would probably go faster than you think once your setup and rhythm are de-bugged. Zen and all that.

Or - depending on your set-up time, just do a "few" a day. 50? Even by hand, this is not an hours' work. Make it part of your daily routine (you know: shave/bathe/deodorant/RR ties. Happens all the time....)

I have used HobLob balsa square dowels (they were approx. GarGraves size) to make a number of ties, a few years ago. By hand with a miter box and a hobby saw. Then I stained them.   

@D500 posted:

It would probably go faster than you think ...

... I have used HobLob balsa square dowels (they were approx. GarGraves size) to make a number of ties, a few years ago. By hand with a miter box and a hobby saw.....

Yes. I've also used those square strips, cutting them by hand with a miter box and hobby saw, and it really did go fast. And I like that I don't have to be worried about the potential risks of losing a finger with a power saw.

And to the original poster, if you want it to go faster you can pre-cut the long strips in half or quarters, place those shorter strips parallel in the miter box, and then cut multiple ties with a couple passes of the hobby saw.

John

@Mannyrock posted:

Thanks for that advice Bob.

The problem I see with using either a table saw or a miter saw is that once the fence is set up to make the correct length of cut, the actual step of shoving in the strip and cutting it off would go pretty fast, but you would have to stop between each and every cut to "clear" the cut-off piece out of the way, off of saw base top, and off the work table top into a bucket or something.  And, you would not want to use your fingers or hands to sweep that piece out.  You would have to use a clearing stick.  It seems to me that this would be agonizingly slow.  :-O

Mannyrock

I'd use something like a 1/4" poplar plank and rip it down into strips first.

You use a thin pusher to move the cut tie out of the saw for each pass, it should be very quick.  Also, if you're cutting something like a 4 foot board, you can pull it out from the back or have your helper do that.  If I'm cutting multiple strips for any use, I normally just let them fall in back of the saw and collect them when I'm done.

For cutting the thin strips to the length of a tie, I'd use a chop saw, you can do multiple strips in one chop.

I don't see any finger danger over any other operations with a saw, and you can make a lot of these in a little time.

Thanks for the comments guys.

I guess I'm going to have to do a dry run of 50 or so to see what's up.

I'll probably force my wife to sit on a tall stool next to the miter saw, like an Elf, and push each of the cut pieces out with a stick. :-)

(Hey, you wanna go to the beach next summer, well then you gotta do this!)

Hopefully she won't shove my head in!

Mannyrock

A portable mini table saw (like Rockwell) would be perfect. You don't have to cut one at a time - you can stack the strips vertically or horizontally and do 3 or 4 at a time.

@Mannyrock posted:

  I would like to hear from folks who have actually cut 250 or more, and can tell me honestly how long it takes to cut them.

12" bandsaw - new 1/2" blade.  3 different stops; height, width, and length.  Ran all the scrap wood in my shop through using those until I ran out of scraps.  All day job, several hours on/off, but then again, all 3 dimensions.  And not just 1 day either....

Only reason to do this was that Kappler was out of stock on commercial ties for an unknown amount of time.

Good thing was that lots of nice variation in coloration and the added sawing texture - the commercial ties are way too perfect.  These took stain better, too.  Coffee can stain method...

One note - do not make ties from red (or white) oak,

Probably could have been done in the same time it took to read all these replies.

RSJB18 writes:

“Imagine the look on the ER Doc's face when you tell him what you were cutting......”

If he came into my ED, I’da told him he shoulda saved time, aggravation, injury, and co-payments, and bought a bag of 150 from Moondog! Whilst I sutured his severed fingertip back on😳😳😳

When doing fine work with small pieces on a table saw you need to do this very simple setup. Take out the oval insert that surrounds the blade at the height of the table. (The insert on my Craftsman table saw is red.) Create a duplicate insert out of 1/8" plywood without an opening for the blade, but do drill a hole and countersink for the flat head screw that holds down the insert. Lower the blade below the table top, install your plywood insert securing it with the flat head screw, turn on the saw and slowly raise the blade which will create a hole in your plywood insert the exact size of the blade. This creates a safe surface for small parts so nothing falls below the table.

Most importantly... do not injure yourself! I am giving you these instructions because you have certified that you " have been using table saws and miter saws extensively for the past 30 years." And I am trusting that you know proper safety precautions.

@John in California posted:

When doing fine work with small pieces on a table saw you need to do this very simple setup. Take out the oval insert that surrounds the blade at the height of the table. (The insert on my Craftsman table saw is red.) Create a duplicate insert out of 1/8" plywood without an opening for the blade, but do drill a hole and countersink for the flat head screw that holds down the insert. Lower the blade below the table top, install your plywood insert securing it with the flat head screw, turn on the saw and slowly raise the blade which will create a hole in your plywood insert the exact size of the blade. This creates a safe surface for small parts so nothing falls below the table.

Clever idea, any reason you couldn't do this with 1/8" styrene sheet?  Looking at my DeWalt saw, it might be a bit more complicated, the plate had a large recessed knob to lock it in.

The styrene might melt. Generally, plywood doesn't melt.

If you have a blank which is already flat, square, and correct in one dimension, it would be a simple thing to set the fence on the table saw and run it through. Otherwise, it will be time-consuming, as I can say from experience. I started with basswood split from a log, and used a band saw.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Clever idea, any reason you couldn't do this with 1/8" styrene sheet?  Looking at my DeWalt saw, it might be a bit more complicated, the plate had a large recessed knob to lock it in.

I would be concerned that the styrene will flex, which is not something you want. I know you can purchase a pre-made, solid insert for exactly this purpose - at least for the Craftsman saws. Probably, they exist for the DeWalts as well.

I think 1/8" Styrene certainly won't flex much, certainly not more than 1/8" plywood.  OTOH, I like the idea of just buying a ready-made and fitted insert to do the job.

I cut ties for my modules, for my basement layout, and for my display shelves. I like them, and while it did take some time, the price was right as I used scrap wood from other projects.

That looks great Ross!

But, how did you cut them and how long did it take you please?  I am reviewing all of the great ideas!

I figure I may need about 500+ of them.

Mannyrock

Manny,

It's not what you want to hear, but some aspects of building a layout are just downright boring and repetitive in nature.  For me, it was ballasting over two hundred fifty feet of track and cutting all the lumber for a 10 foot long, 18" high trestle from 1x4 pine! Sometimes there are no real secrets.

Not being much of a procrastinator, I've found it best to just get into it and see if ways to increase efficiency present themselves during the process. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't!

Even the well-known train magazine that had the mantra "Model railroading is fun" on its cover for every issue until the 1970s changed its tune to something along the lines of "Enjoyment with everlasting challenge"!!!

Good luck with your project. The effort will be worth it.

Jim

It goes fast. just a couple of set ups.  One set up to strip the first dimension, cut a bunch of long sticks, then second set up to strip the second dimension, same thing cut em all.  Then go to your miter saw and set up a block for the correct length and either gang cut many sticks together or one at a time.

Or you could take it a few steps further and go crazy

John in Cali,

Love your idea about the plywood to cover the opening and then saw up through it. That suggestion and ones like it are things that make this Forum such a great place!

GR John,  aside from the heat,  I'd be worried about shards of styrene if anything went awry. I'd take my chances with wood over any thin sheet plastic in that application. I think PTFE would be less likely to fail catastrophically than styrene.

In any case, remember: Safety Third!

@Mannyrock

Manny,

It’s been a couple years since I’ve last done any, but I used a table saw to cut scrap boards to size. Then used a miter saw to cut to length. For my display shelves, I was using O27 track and used Masonite that I only needed to cut for width, the height was fine. Then cut to length.

I’m guessing I might have spent a couple hours cutting enough strips for the whole layout, still haven’t used them all.

One more idea, I saw some lath strips at a home improvement store that were quite close on height and width, leaving you only to cut to length.

Take your square stock for the ties, lay 10, 15 or 20 flat side by side (so they'll look like a flat board) , square the one end, keeping them flat wrap them w/masking tape every so many inches. Set your stop on your miter saw or radial arm saw to the length you want your ties. As you cut them you'll be cutting 10, 15 or 20 at once. Think production.

This is how I use to cut my 1/4" kiln dried oak on my radial arm saw when I made trestles.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think 1/8" Styrene certainly won't flex much, certainly not more than 1/8" plywood.  OTOH, I like the idea of just buying a ready-made and fitted insert to do the job.

Plexi glass works well. I have at least on for my table saw.

@feet posted:

Plexi glass works well. I have at least on for my table saw.

If Plexiglass works well, I can't imagine a fairly thick 1/8" piece of Styrene wouldn't work as well.

I have cut hundreds of ties with a table saw. For Lionel O-gauge track I used 1/4" MDF; for 0-27, 1/8" masonite. First rip multiple strips to tie length using your rip fence, like an entire 4'x4'x1/4" board. Reset rip fence to tie width. Stack five or six of the strips at a time, and use the miter gauge to feed them square into the blade.  After each cut, pull back, slide the stack against the rip fence, and push the stack through again. Don't try to get ties out of the entire length of the strip. When the stack won't fit firmly against the miter gauge, switch to the next stack. I used a carbide tipped blade that I use for everything. I cut a shoe box full at a time, and made more when I needed them. In some areas, I have also plugged the ends of the Lionel ties with a short block of tie stock. Maybe the rest, someday.

I didn't think to use a zero-clearance insert, but that would be an improvement to my method and I would recommend it.

Another thought on making the insert for your table saw.  When raising the blade, only raise it about 1/8” above the thickness of the material you’re cutting.  

Manny

For 027 layout I used 1/8 inch thick, one side smooth Masonite compressed wood the ties.  It is already 1/8 inches thick and I had scrape pieces lying around, some being old used peg board.  A band saw and adjustable miter gauge werr used to cut the ties out.  1/2 inch wide strips were used and cut into 2 inch long ties, 5 or 6 strips at a time, by holding then together by hand.  This way of cutting and the use of 1/8 inch thick Masonite made them EZ wooden ties.  Then the ties were filed to remove the rough edges.

One problem was the fine saw powder produced by the band saw cutting Masonite covered the whole shop.  This powder dust was much finer than typical saw dust.  I did not notice the dust at first and it was too late to put a vacuum hose on under the band saw table for the first 150 ties.   A cut down 1 gallon milk jug was added under the band saw table and hooked up a small Red Devil vacuum to the milk jug hole.  A shop vacuum hose was set under the band saw table near the milk jug.  This solved the dust problem as most of the dust on a band saw is carried under the table by the blade.

The ties were painted with cheap Walmart black gloss paint.  Black was chosen because most of my track had black ties except for a couple sections that had silver and brown ties.  The black was too black and I spray a mist of light gray paint over the black painted ties to lighten them up.  It took me several part time days to cut and paint 600 ties.

I installed the ties by putting a couple of dots of Elmer’s white glue on between the tracks and thin bead of white glue on the ties.  The ties ties were cut with a pair of diagonal pliers to make small pieces to fill in spots blocked with soldered on feed wires, etc.  The glue holds them in place and they can be easily removed by tapping with a screw driver and tack hammer if necessary.  I had to remove a few that did not get lined up properly.

A band saw and miter is all you need if you have one .  Table saws are an over kill but will work by using the fence and adjustable miter gauge.

Charlie

Choo Choo, every single night, I learn something here. I'm not presently looking to be making ties, but this tip caught my eye for sure: "A cut down 1 gallon milk jug was added under the band saw table and hooked up a small Red Devil vacuum to the milk jug hole.  A shop vacuum hose was set under the band saw table near the milk jug.  This solved..."

Rather ingenious!! Thanks! I can some adaptive use for this idea!

Manny, I bought these plastic ties off of amazon, they are for o gauge tubular track, they also sell for 027 track. If they run out, it can say they don't know when they will have them in stock, but usually within a couple of months they have more of them in stock. I Hope the link works since I've never done a link before.

https://www.amazon.com/Realist...77-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If Plexiglass works well, I can't imagine a fairly thick 1/8" piece of Styrene wouldn't work as well.

Whatever works for you is all that matters.

My insert is 3/8th's thick but I have a 10" contractors saw.

@feet posted:

Whatever works for you is all that matters.

My insert is 3/8th's thick but I have a 10" contractors saw.

You got me to thinking, I pulled the insert from my Dewalt saw, it's 7/16 thick, so that might alter my material choice.

endless tracks

You might be interested in my track tie installation on page 7, post 64 of my layout writeup below.

https://ogrforum.com/...ra-027-layout?page=7

This topic on my layout construction has an index at the end of page 1, post 1 that includes how to build a $10 turntable and $10 round house as well as many more easy, low cost train layout projects.

Charlie

Well, thanks for all of these great techniques and ideas.

I don't own a bandsaw, because it is the one shop tool that I am absolutely terrified of. (I can picture myself unconsciously reaching across the base to grab something, and then seeing my hand plop on the floor. )

I looked into the Three R company plastic ties, but it appears that they stopped making them many years ago, and most of the ones I can still find online are brown instead of black.   Occasionally there is a pack of black ones for sale, but I would need around 600+ and I don't think that I could find that many.

Looks like I will try to find stock that is already in the correct width and height, and then use some of the lessons from above to cut them on my 8" miter saw.   

There is a company that sells them already precut in a bag (Northeastern Scale Lumber), but looking at the pictures, you can see that each end of the tie is ragged and fuzzy, as if cut by a snipper, instead of being clean rectangle, cut with a fine saw.  In my experience, ragged and fuzzy pine looks pretty terrible when you stain it.

Thanks,

Mannyrock