Dad's Layout Changed (23 Nov 2020)

Dad decided to go with this layout.  I hope to get some space somewhere to add a trolley and an engine shed.  Going with Mianne benchwork.

Hey Russell,

Good to hear from you! Phew! What a journey!

I suppose the easiest way to clear the basement was to move.

If you use building flats/fronts along the wall at the top of diagram, you should be able to create some space for trolley. I can also see enough space around the inside edge to have the trolley run from one side to the opposite, perhaps, have a couple of stops in between.

If you want to keep it simple, I would change one of the spurs at 7 o'clock to the opposite direction. The trains would run in opposite directions. I prefer that than looking at two trains racing. Depends on Dad's preferences.

I just went to a redo of my machine and I am still getting things configured. I'll tinker with the plan(s) if you like.

The trolley will be cool. Look at Dallee and Azatrax for some ready to go controllers to make it have starts and stops. Then, create the run. I think from city to country on the inner edge would look the best.

Say Hi to Dad and let him know Moonman was asking.

Will do, Moonman.

Feel free to tinker with the plan.  I don't like the sharp curves, but that's where we are since his back is getting so bad.

Well,  I made some changes for the trolley and the spur direction.  Somehow I gotta try and get space for an engine house in there. Thought about trying to get one on one of the spurs in the "yard" area.

So, do you actually have the Marx track and switches?

That library is in SCARM due to a layout I was working on for Marx333 in Seattle. he had a load of it and a lot of original switches and transformers. It was a fun learning experience to study the Marx system.

Milen requires manufacturer specifications to add a library, obsolete or not.

Do you have an engine house? If yes, which one?

He has both the track and the switches.  We may use Gargraves for the track, but will definately use the Marx switches so his engines with the wide gear wheels will clear the switch in both directions.  He does not have an engine house yet.  Probably will look for one that will work.

Kelpieflyer posted:

He has both the track and the switches.  We may use Gargraves for the track, but will definately use the Marx switches so his engines with the wide gear wheels will clear the switch in both directions.  He does not have an engine house yet.  Probably will look for one that will work.

I asked because I have some SCARM engine houses made to correct size and also use RR-Track that has many buildings already made. That could assist in fitment.

The area that looks the best is from 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock when looking at the 2D track plan. There's space to rearrange things a little and squeeze in a small

engine service are with a train shed.

I'll fiddle a little with it and see what I can do. Are you looking for a steamer type with the raised center roof section that ventilated the exhaust  or a diesel type with a flat roof?

I think you need to evaluate the Mianne lift bridge and your fathers back. They don't lift up as high as you think. Maybe a better solution is a layout in the center of the room with only scenery in the center beyond the 28" reach. Help for your father would be needed for the scenery.

Moonman posted:

Kelpieflyer posted:

He has both the track and the switches.  We may use Gargraves for the track, but will definately use the Marx switches so his engines with the wide gear wheels will clear the switch in both directions.  He does not have an engine house yet.  Probably will look for one that will work.

I asked because I have some SCARM engine houses made to correct size and also use RR-Track that has many buildings already made. That could assist in fitment.

The area that looks the best is from 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock when looking at the 2D track plan. There's space to rearrange things a little and squeeze in a small

engine service are with a train shed.

I'll fiddle a little with it and see what I can do. Are you looking for a steamer type with the raised center roof section that ventilated the exhaust  or a diesel type with a flat roof?

I think he wold want one that could be used for both, so probably a steam engine house.

Wonder if I should use a bridge that disconnects completely from the layout, or one that hinges up completely so he can get through.  He really wants to keep the around the wall layout.

Mianne has made sections that raise up, allowing a person to stoop under.  Even "motorized" if I remember right.

I looked over the Mianne lift gate, but it does not go high enough.  I'll probably use a drop bridge

Russell, I have built a few lift bridges for a couple of Forum members, Tomorrow I can send you some pictures and a short video of it if you would like!

Russell here is a link of a post I did a while back!

https://ogrforum.com/topic/bridge-lift.

When it comes to Mianne Lift Gate remember that your layout height dictates how high the gate will go. My table is 36" and I am six foot and have to dip slightly. If the table had been 42" I could walk straight thru with no problems. Seeing your dad has back problems he most likely will NOT want to bend over for either a lift gate or a LOW Layout table. 42" might be in your plans.

Russell,

Don't over think this bridge thing. It as simple as having a board that lifts up. There are automotive hood/trunk supports and furniture cabinet lid supports that are available to gas assist the lift and hold it when up.

There's a few easy ways to get it done - but they are all the same concept.

here's one example by frizzinbee on his layout - look at the March/April time period.

I have a couple of other styles of hinging bookmarked. They all use a gas cylinder. Some have even used storm door closers, but that seemed clunky and a little crude to me.

One that I liked just made the section terrain the same as the rest of the layout. it doesn't have to be a bridge. They have had lift sections for bars for years. It's not a complicated thing. The gas cylinder takes the weight off the lifting motion and holds it open. 

Thanks to all for the ideas.  I'll see what Dad wants to use and build one.  He has to get his train house finished up first, then we'll be off to the races!

I added an engine house to one of the spurs.  Wondering if I should connect the two loops??

I would connect the loops at a later date. Right now, there can be two trains and trolley running at once. The 2 trains move in opposite directions. It will look cool. A third train can parked on the passing siding, if that is set up with a power kill. There are accessories to stop and play as well as some service spurs to play with.

What are the ideas for the 5 o'clock corner? Just a woods or forest look?  

I personally would connect the two loops now. It is so much more easier before you attach everything with ballast or what  ever you plan to use to hold the track down. Also if you put two crossovers facing opposite directions ( they do NOT need to be together) it makes running more trains and also doing real operations a lot more fun. You can move the inside to the outside and vice a versa. Remember in real life you do not see GIANT hands coming down to move trains. I try to keep the attitude that once it is on track I want to move it everywhere there is track without touching it again. But it is really about what ever YOU want. IT IS YOU AND YOUR DADS LAYOUT NOT OURS!

Well, the train house is nearly finished on the inside.  Others who said they would help did not, so my wife and I have been using weekends to get it finished up.  Only have a few more trim items to attach.

I placed the layout on the floor to see if anything needs to be tweaked.  Also going to connect the two loops.

Nice idea, printing the layout out full size.  How did you manage that ?

Nice Train building! I also like the 1:1 print out idea. I was thinking about doing that but wasn't sure if it would be worth the paper and ink! I might revisit the idea!

The paper isn't too much of an issue, Mike.  It's the ink that racks up the cost.  If we just want to print the track, in black ink, it might not be so costly.  

Russell M., I love the fact that you made it look like a depot, I like the interior also! Nice layout plan, too!

Rusty

Russell, That is a great looking building, nice track plan, and I like how you have it printed out full scale too!  I'll look forward to seeing more now hat I saw this topic.

As far as lifting or dropping the bridge goes, pnumatic cylinders much like the automotive hatch shocks could be used. It doesn't take much air to use them and they can lift a lot. A small compressor from a car with airbags likely wouldn't even need a tank.  The fine reaction speed is as simple as an adjustable valve similar to that on fish tanks air lines.  (try looking at Bimba cylinders. Try a Parker Store too. Get rebuildable ones if you can).  Low volt control solinoids for pnumatics can be had too. (Mac was my fav, rebuilable)  Pnumatics, various pressure valves, and flow limiting are what gives the better animatronics the lifelike movement characteristics, but with soft stops, etc. (when tuned right anyhow)

  I like pnumatics because they are strong, yet not as destructive as a geared motor might be "worst case".  Same limit switches, etc would apply.  I'd only really consider a stepper motor in place of air. 

Very nice depot.

Dan Padova posted:

Nice idea, printing the layout out full size.  How did you manage that ?

Dan,

1:1 layout printing is a feature available in SCARM.

Kelpieflyer posted:

Well, the train house is nearly finished on the inside.  Others who said they would help did not, so my wife and I have been using weekends to get it finished up.  Only have a few more trim items to attach.

I placed the layout on the floor to see if anything needs to be tweaked.  Also going to connect the two loops.

Wow!  What a journey from the basement of the other house.  Russell, after all of this work on the train house, the layout will be a easy task. I think you'll need an "official" sign for the depot.

I would suggest that you try to fit a "kill" track between the switches that join the two loops. Then, you can still operate two trains conventionally or one train on two loops. Some insulated pins, a short cut of straight and a toggle switch would do it.

Thanks for the input on the layout.  Carl,  can you elaborate on the kill switch you are talking about?  He has a Lionel transformer that operates up to 4 different circuits. I have been trying to figure out how to do the switch thing between loops and cant seem to put my head around it.  We will need to have the loops operate separately, which is easy enough, but operating with the loops connected with a smooth transition between loops seems to be more complicated.

Adriatic,  I like the idea of the pneumatics, I'l have to explore that further.

Russell,, here is a pneumatic lift bridge I built. If you are interested in more information let me know!

I didn't know you ended up with pnumatics Mike. Very cool; nice and slow too. A tank would be a few minutes buzz then silence till the pressure goes low. (and I do mean silence)

Kelpieflyer posted:

Thanks for the input on the layout.  Carl,  can you elaborate on the kill switch you are talking about?  He has a Lionel transformer that operates up to 4 different circuits. I have been trying to figure out how to do the switch thing between loops and cant seem to put my head around it.  We will need to have the loops operate separately, which is easy enough, but operating with the loops connected with a smooth transition between loops seems to be more complicated.

Adriatic,  I like the idea of the pneumatics, I'l have to explore that further.

Do you plain to run long freight trains?When I say long I mean 25 to 35 boxcars.

Kelpieflyer posted:

Thanks for the input on the layout.  Carl,  can you elaborate on the kill switch you are talking about?  He has a Lionel transformer that operates up to 4 different circuits. I have been trying to figure out how to do the switch thing between loops and cant seem to put my head around it.  We will need to have the loops operate separately, which is easy enough, but operating with the loops connected with a smooth transition between loops seems to be more complicated.

Adriatic,  I like the idea of the pneumatics, I'l have to explore that further.

Ok, transformer channel 1 operates the outside loop. Transformer channel 2 operates the inside loop. Channel 3 is trolley.  Channel 4 is Accessory power fixed voltage.

The two loops are isolated by cutting a small piece of track, say 3", to place between the switches for the crossover. A Plastic O27 pin is used in one end of the small straight, on the inside loop side.

Now the power does not pass between the two loops, permitting two train operation with separate handles.

A simple toggle switch (On/Off) is used. A wire from Transformer Channel 1 is connected to one pole and the other pole is connected to loop 2 center rail.

For Transformer channel 1 to operate 1 train on both loops, Channel 2 is moved to zero and the switch is placed in the On position. Now Channel 1 controls the entire layout.

It would also be helpful to have kill switches for the passing siding and the two spur sidings to provide a place to park a train and engines and not have them run.

I could create some diagrams if that would be helpful.

Carl,

THanks for the explanation.  I'll go with that and when I get to wiring, I'll likely need more help.  Dad is going to order Mianne benchwork. We are going to go with 3/4 plywood with homasote glued to it. Track will be attached to the homosote.

Seaboard, I doubt Dad will have that many cars on at once.  Probably 10-15 at the most.

Carl,

THanks for the explanation.  I'll go with that and when I get to wiring, I'll likely need more help.  Dad is going to order Mianne benchwork. We are going to go with 3/4 plywood with homasote glued to it. Track will be attached to the homosote.

Seaboard, I doubt Dad will have that many cars on at once.  Probably 10-15 at the most.

Mike,

I like the pneumatic bridge.  I'd love to get the info on it as I think Dad would like to use it.

Thanks,

Kelpieflyer posted:

Mike,

I like the pneumatic bridge.  I'd love to get the info on it as I think Dad would like to use it.

Thanks,

Russell, shot me an email and let me know what information you would like. I have sent it on to another forum member getting mianne bench work to use with it, he sent it on to Mianne so they could hel with the build.

Mike, That's a great idea pushing the information over to Mianne to help.

I agree Mark, but it wasn't my idea. I guess I should have put a copywrite on my design LOL! I sure hope they can help the other forum member out!