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About to start laying roadbed, so electrical work is imminent.  After thoroughly reading Barry Broskowitz’s very helpful book on DCS and some threads here, I still have the following questions and hoping for help/advice:

 

Background – This is my first ever "real" layout (more than just a Fastrack oval) as a father-son project with my twin 9-year old boys, and this is all very new to me.  The layout is 14 x 33’ using DCS (probably go to Legacy too at some point) with Atlas O track/most switches.  There is a “sea level” double main line (072 and 081), an Elevated subway (2 or 3 point-to-point track lines that will run 14 x 10,' an upper level dogbone (debating between 045 and 054 curves) that will run the entire 33,’ a small yard on “sea level” (4 tracks that run approx. 12,’ ) and finally, an under the table storage “yard” that will be 3 – 6 tracks running approx. 25 – 30.’      

 

 

Questions:

 

Barry’s Book (paraphrased) says –Use star pattern wiring; use equidistant wire lengths and keep wire lengths as short as possible between terminal blocks and track blocks (after DCS signal split).  This makes perfect sense and I plan to use the first star pattern wiring he describes (by “line” rather than by geographic section).  But by definition, I don’t think I can have equal wire lengths (or even close to equal lengths) for any of my lines.  Assume the terminal blocks are placed dead center under the layout (I’d actually like to place them on the control panel if possible).  Whether dead center under layout or on the console, there will be a track block within a foot or two of its associated terminal block and others that are 12 - 16' feet away in both directions.  And, this means wire runs after the DCS signal split (at the terminal block) will be varied, and long in many cases.  The only way I think I can achieve “equidistance” is to cut equal wire lengths and then bunch up the extra wire length for the track blocks closest to the terminal block??  

 

Atlas terminal drops.  According to Barry’s book, I should be using 16 or even 14 gauge wiring for long wire lengths (I probably will not have any >50’ lengths, but am wanting to use toggle switches that will greatly increase length of some wires – see my next question).  I think the Atlas O terminal drops use either 18 or 20 gauge feed wires.  Presumably, this offers insufficient flow and I should not be using these convenient little things or...??

 

Toggle switches (and Relays).  I would like to use toggle switches for two applications:

 

  1. I plan to use one Z4000 for all train lines (separate power source for switches and accessories).  But I don’t want to needlessly power up the subterranean storage yard tracks, the Elevated line and/or the classification yard when they are not in use.  Barry’s book rightly indicates that toggle switches increase wire length a lot.  So I’m thinking about using relay switches.  Some people, including big club guys, say stay away from toggle switches and relays.  I can't see how to achieve my goal without the use of toggle switches.  Use?  Don't use?  If not, how would I achieve my goal?  If yes, what are good and recommended relays given my situation?
  2. My 9-year old boys like to race their trains, and they layout is intended to be fun for them.  So, I want the ability to toggle between DCS and conventional mode so they can just throw the Polar Express set on and set the throttle to "tilt."  Every schematic I’ve come up with, however, seems way too complicated.  Basically my “complicated method” has me putting a toggle on each line going from Z4000 to TIU and then a toggle switch on every duplicate line coming out of the Z4000 that runs directly to all the terminal blocks.   Thoughts would be greatly appreciated on how to achieve a simpler way to easily switch from DCS to Conventional.  

 

Thanks VERY much for any/all help/advice.

 

Peter

Last edited by PJB
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Peter,

Barry’s Book (paraphrased) says –Use star pattern wiring; use equidistant wire lengths and keep wire lengths

This relates to each of the two wires in a pair, not to all of the pairs of wires.

Atlas terminal drops.  According to Barry’s book, I should be using 16 or even 14 gauge wiring for long wire lengths ... I think the Atlas O terminal drops use either 18 or 20 gauge feed wires.  Presumably, this offers insufficient flow and I should not be using these convenient little things

That's correct, I suggest that you not use them.

Toggle switches (and Relays).  I would like to use toggle switches for two applications:

 

I plan to use one Z4000 for all train lines (separate power source for switches and accessories).  But I don’t want to needlessly power up the subterranean storage yard tracks, the Elevated line and/or the classification yard when they are not in use.  Barry’s book rightly indicates that toggle switches increase wire length a lot.  So I’m thinking about using relay switches.

High quality relays are fine.

My 9-year old boys like to race their trains, and they layout is intended to be fun for them.  So, I want the ability to toggle between DCS and conventional mode so they can just throw the Polar Express set on and set the throttle to "tilt."  Every schematic I’ve come up with, however, seems way too complicated.  Basically my “complicated method” has me putting a toggle on each line going from Z4000 to TIU and then a toggle switch on every duplicate line coming out of the Z4000 that runs directly to all the terminal blocks.   Thoughts would be greatly appreciated on how to achieve a simpler way to easily switch from DCS to Conventional.  

much easier way to swap between conventional and DCS operation without any additional wiring is to simply turn off the DCS signal to the tracks when running conventionally, and turn it back on for DCS control:

Menu/System/DCS Setup and press the AOF soft key to turn the DCS signal off on all channels.

 

To turn the DCS signal back on again:

Menu/System/DCS Setup and press the AON soft key to turn the DCS signal off on all channels.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

 
 

Barry,

 

Wow, you are johnny-on-the-spot!  Thanks ever so much for jumping on this with such helpful answers.  Didn't realize how capable the DCS uint was - being able to turn off the TIU. 

 

Given your experience with DCS, toggles and relays, would appreciate your thoughts on a good quality relay.  I'm using the GB DPDT toggle switches recommended by Jim Barrett in the OGR DCS DVD. 

 

Also - unless I misunderstood Rich Battista's DVD, I think he says the TIU can be used to power down a siding, yard, etc. (anything between switches).  Does this make sense??  If so (how??) it would eliminate the need for toggles/relays...

 

I'll probably be back in-touch with more amateur questions as things progress.  Hope I don't wear out my welcome. 

 

Thanks again!

 

Peter

Peter,

Given your experience with DCS, toggles and relays, would appreciate your thoughts on a good quality relay.  I'm using the GB DPDT toggle switches recommended by Jim Barrett in the OGR DCS DVD.

Whatever Jim recommends are fine.

Also - unless I misunderstood Rich Battista's DVD, I think he says the TIU can be used to power down a siding, yard, etc. (anything between switches).  Does this make sense??  If so (how??) it would eliminate the need for toggles/relays...

Look at pages 87-88 in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition for a detailed discussion of how to use the AIU to manage track power.

Barry, So just to make sure I have my mind around this - it would be OK for me to put the terminal blocks and toggles right on my control board right? I mean, putting them dead center under the layout only means they are a foot or two away from the control board. Barrett only suggested toggles not relays. Obviously, this is no biggie, but is there a relay you prefer? Thanks again, Peter
I wasn't planning on running my Premier or Legacy engines in conventional mode. Just wanted to come up with easy way to switch between command and conventionsl control so kids could run Polar Express and other conventional train too. And was hoping not to keep TIU/DCS on when not needed to save wear and tear on these expensive components. Peter
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