Decals are they easy to customize?

I was hoping some of the pros would chime in and give up their secrets.  I am undertaking a change of livery and could use some tips.  Without other guidance, I plan to go to a print shop and have them download some historical pictures that I know of, have them copy the logos, and see if they can adjust the size to fit O scale.

AMCDave knows how to make awesome decals.  Hopefully he will see this or you can e-mail him.

Thanks Lee!

Mike:

There are two ways to make your own custom decals.

1 - The easy way

Send your designs (1:1) to Stan Cedarleaf Decals in PDF format. Stan can print white (Alps printer). His decals show up on dark colors.

Stan Cedarleaf
11176 E Western Sunset Dr
Dewey, AZ 86327-5632
Home 928 778-3732
Cell 520 831-3390

Stan Cedarleaf
Trains "R" Fun
Prescott Canyon Southern Garden Railroad
and
Cedarleaf Custom Decals

2 - On your Own

I copy photos off the internet then size them for what I need. I copy/paste the photos into a presentation format like Microsoft Presentation then print photo quality. I have used Microscale paper until recently. Microscale paper prints well - no issues. Microscale clear paper however will not show up on dark colors. Microscale white paper will but any area of the paper left blank will show up white. I have just purchased a sample of paper from Evans Design. They sell only white paper but unlike Microscale one does not need to spray the decals with an overcoat - a real timesaver - and they have a procedure for making the decal clear if the user wants to. I have yet to try this paper but am anxious to do so.

If you use a paper that needs an overspray then Testors Dullcote or Krylon Crystal Clear Gloss or Satin are good.

Any more questions please let me know.

Joe

Thanks Joe!

THE ONLY question on this board where I can claim expert status!!!!

I do the art work for a few decal manufactures in other hobbies. I do all my own stuff too.

I had a decal company during the NASCAR craze 80's - 2000's.

Custom decals are are as easy or difficult as you make them. If you want decals the same quality as Microscale or old Walthers....it's more work. If you are willing to use photos as art and just print them....not difficult. Like many things....the end results is as good as the amount of work put into it.

Really good decals need to come from Vector based art.  Photos, modified or Photoshopped, are pixels. And unless you have a ALPS or lesser known OKI or Kodak  you can't print anything but decals that will be applied to white or very light color.  To print a light color to be applied to a dark surface you have to use a white decal paper that white ink has been screen printed across the entire surface. I made the nose logo on this IC loco with whit decal paper.

I created the art by finding a IC logo on the net and using it to draw a new logo in CorelDraw. I created the logo and then in the art I placed the logo in a orange background. I printed the decal on white paper and trimmed close to the logo.....any edges will blend in to the orange paint. Not a perfect decal but one ANYONE can create themselves.

For true Microscale quality you have to screen print which most times means you will print 300 or so. I have an ALPS and a OKI and while they do White very well....they have limitations.  They print using a wax like ribbon so color matching can be very difficult at times. A laser printer does better work and color matching.......and there is a laser that prints white but it is $5,000 so I have yet to try it!!

Here are other examples of home brew decals....

Any questions....I'll try and answer....THX

AMCDave - you decals really are spectacular.  Now I know why!

AMCDave, are you a member of the 2 Yahoo Alps groups?  I have a Alps MD-1000 and as you say, some colors are difficult.  I have learned some neat tricks though from those groups using spot colors and overlays.

I am but not been active in years. When ALPS looked to be heading mainstream I was in......but now I have moved on to other methods. I use the white decal paper and I have a screen printer buddy that I get some work done. I save the ALPS for prototype work I do for the hobby industry when we need a item finished long before production begins. Thanks

Joe, I have tried the Evans Design's white paper many times [printed maybe 15 to 20 sheets].  I have yet to get a suitable end result using this paper.

The white is not opaque on a model... at best semi translucent.  You need to be careful when using an inkjet printer, because if you set your print quality too high, it will apply too much ink on the sheet, and the printed area will "crack". On the other side of the coin, printing less typically results in a non-opaque graphic that won't show up on most surfaces other than white.

The decal portion of the paper is very thick, and you will see the edges of your decal.  The only way I have been able to work around this is to use the paper for signage and cut the paper the same size as you sign, to put the edges of the decal flush with the edges of your sign.

I have tried very brand and type of dullcote and equivalents... both solvent based and acrylic, and have yet to find a brand or technique to turn the decal paper clear without issues. The most common problem is again cracking in the printed image.  I tried their method of using vegetable oil to turn certain areas of a decal clear... and it was a fiasco.  First off, it will turn the decal clear... only as long as the oil is still "wet".  As soon as the oil dries, the paper will turn back to its original white / semi translucent color.  Also, you cannot control where you place the oil on the decal... if you are trying to turn just a set area clear.  The oil will soak beyond where you want it, and it is not predictable how far it will bleed.

As far as not needing to seal the decal after printing, I have had mixed results.  Most of the time, the ink jet printed areas will flake off after you place the decal in water to release the backing paper.

Speaking of placing the decal in water to release the backing paper... I did find that the best method for this is to dunk the decal in water, pull it out immediately, let it sit on a paper towel for 10 to 15 seconds, then slide it off.  If you let the decal sit in the water, or too long on the paper towel, the glue will dissolve and your decal won't affix to your model.

This is the only decal paper my LHS stocks besides the Testors brand, so I've tried hard to make it work.  I should also say that I have not bought any more sheets in the last year, so maybe there have been improvements that I have not experienced yet.

Ink Jet decals are worthless in my opinion. Either buy a laser, use one at work or take your art to an office supply store and have them print them. Even laser printed decals have limits. But the results are like night and day over ink jet.

Todd:

Wow - thanks for the heads up. I have the sheets so will still try them but I will print my decals on Microscale paper at the same time to play it safe.

Joe

I agree that ink jet printing bites.  But, I haven't had a lot of luck with laser printed decals either.  Most of the time, it always seems like the toner does not fuse well with the decal paper and wants to flake off also.  I won't use the laser at my office, because I have had the laser decal paper stick to the drum... which resulted in having to get our IT department involved and a visit from our copier tech to fix the copier. Not a good time.  LOL

If Joe is using the same decal paper I have from Evans, it is specifically made for inkjet printers.

I've just about given up on D-I-Y decals.  Unless you are printing straight black text, I have not had any great success at printing on decal paper.  It could be me, and maybe I'm not doing something correctly.  I have followed the manufacturers instructions to the letter, but it rarely comes out as usable decals.

Going forward, I'm going to have them printed by a third party.  :-)

Joe,  after you have worked with these sheets, I would be very interested in how they worked for you, and any special tips or tricks that you discover.

Todd:

I am going to print some decals today or tomorrow on white decal paper from both Micromark and Evans Design and compare them side by side on a OGR wall. I should have some results in about 5-8 days.

Past history with Micromark clear decal paper - I use an inkjet and have had no issues with the paper other than the inability to place on dark background colors. I did recently purchase a new printer to replace an old one (about 6 years old). I have noticed a marked increase in print quality with the new printer so I think advances are being made in inkjet technology.

If you decide to go to an outside source contact Stan Cedarleaf (see above) and compare his prices with others. One thing to keep in mind with Stan - always purchase a full sheet. He will sell 1/3 sheets but needs to charge the full sheet price for some technical reason. I have had zero issues with Stan's decals and use them on all my product with dark background colors.

Joe

Started a little experiment today.

I printed billboard signs on both Micromark and Evans Design white decal paper. I used an HP Inkjet printer that is about 4 months old. I printed using the HP Premium Photo paper setting.

As shown below I could not discern any difference in print quality.

I also cleaned and painted two OGR walls with Testors Rail Brown spray.

Starting tomorrow I am going to coat the Micromark sheet with four layers of Krylon Crystal Clear Satin (my usual procedure). I am going to cut the Evans Design sheet in half and coat one with a single layer of Testors Dullcote while leaving the other half sheet as is. Spraying the Micromark sheet should take about two days by which time the paint on the OGR walls will have cured enough for this experiment.

In about three days I will spray the OGR walls with one cost of Dullcote to prepare them for the decals then after one day cure I will place the individual decals using my method for Micromark and the manufacturer's directions for the Evans Design since this is the first time I am using this product.

Joe

I placed the three differently prepared decals on the painted OGR walls today. To summerized from the last posting one set of decals was printed on Micromark white paper then over sprayed with Krylon Crystal Clear Satin. The next set of decals was printed on Evan's Design white paper then cut in half. One half of the sheet received a coat of Testors Dullcote while the other half sheet received no over coat per Evans Design instructions.

All decals were placed using warm DI water only - no decal solvent was used.

The pictures shown below were taken after the decals dried for about two hours.

The first picture below shows the initial results. The first two Mail Pouch and Hot Dog decals are Micromark. They were placed with no issues though on the right edge of the Hot Dog decal if one looks closely there are some white spots where the ink 'chipped' off during placement. 

The second set of Mail Pouch and Hot Dog decals are Evans Design with the Dullcote over spray. As can been seen the over spray was not the thing to do. I played with these decals for close to 45 minutes trying to get them to lay flat. After a while I switched to MicroSet solvent to see if it would do any good. Nothing done could stop the edges from curling. The last three decals are Evans Design placed according to their video instructions. I placed the decals in the DI water for about 5 seconds then let them sit on a paper towel for about 30 seconds until ready to place. Unlike the video instructions the decals did not curl up and uncurl. However there were no issues placing them.

The nest photo is a close up showing had the over sprayed decals curled while drying. One can also see the ink chip outs on the Micromark Hot Dog decal.  

The next photo shows the Micromark and Evans Design decals (no over coat) side by side. The Evans Design decal dries somewhat transparent compared to the Micromark decal. This is not a bad thing since many modelers may like the look better. The Evans Design decals are on the left wall.

Tomorrow I will start the softening process.

What I like about the two decal papers is that they are 'heavy' enough I can press into them w/o ripping the decal. I used a rolled up piece of table napkin to press the decals into the wall.

I will not most likely try making the Evans Design decals transparent since for me the whole idea of buying the white paper is to keep the decal opaque. For transparent decals on dark surfaces Stan Cedarleaf's decals work just fine.

I have had good luck with the Bell decal paper for laser printers

here are the results I got with the paper

Thank you!  This is very informative and after my own heart: actually try everything and see what works.  

Thank you!!!!

With the bel Laser decal paper you have to shut the laser off and let it cool down before you print with the paper otherwise it will stick to the drum. 

*** Important: Laser Paper must be used as soon as the printer is turned on to prevent the paper from melting onto the fuser.***

This was taken from the instructions from the bel decal website 

http://www.decalpaper.com

Finished the softening process with some interesting results. I used lighter fluid (Naptha) for the Evans Design decals and badger solution for the Micromark plus I used Badger on one of the Evans Design.

Interesting enough after using the Badger solution on the Evans Design decals that sprayed with Dullcote and curled I was able to take most of the curl away but not all so it is recommended to follow Evans Design rules about no over spray for their decals.

An overall view and close up of the softened Micromark decals (on left side of wall) is next.

An overall view and close up of the Evans Design decals are shown below.

A side by side shot of Evans Design and Micromark is next.

Both papers performed well as long as manufacturers' instructions were followed.

Some comments:

1. Micromark paper is more opaque. After softening one can see the indentations but the brick color does not show through the decal.

2. Evans Design tends to be more transparent with the brick color tending to show through.

3. Badger softening solution seemed to work on the Evans Design paper. I could see no difference in transparency or softening.

Guess it boils down to personal choice. If one likes the 'just painted' sign Micromark is the way to go. If one likes the 'weathered' approach or wants to weather some more then Evans Design is a good paper to start with. This is not say one can't weather the Micromark decal just that it may be easier to start with Evans Design.

Hope this adds something to the discussion.

Joe