Dome Cars

Can't wait to see this one Bill. 

So you are going to build one from scratch?  Or bash it from some other passenger car?

Yes, more information would be useful - starting point and "how", please.

Me Too!   2 of them and if I could find the Pullman sleeper blanks or kits it would be 4. I'm going to regret this but hopefully these 4 will be the last darn domes I build!    Mr. Bill please post pics of your build progress.   Isnt a T610 a prop plane called a flying dumptruck?

Yes.  The more photos and details on the "how-to", the better!

mwb posted:

Yes, more information would be useful - starting point and "how", please.

This will be a total scratch billed in Brass. with my resin cast detail parts.

Bill

I hope to see a good detailed set of pictures on this build............somewhere.

So it goes.

Bill, Slightly off topic, but as you are the SME on MOPAC. Does anyone make a model of the Penn Texas sleeper that got pulled by the PRR to St Louis and then on to Texas?   It was in MOPAC blue and gray with gold striping, but had a PRR keystone on it.   This would be on my bucket list.

By the way, thanks for posting this. I look forward to your progress 

John Sethian posted:

Bill, Slightly off topic, but as you are the SME on MOPAC. Does anyone make a model of the Penn Texas sleeper that got pulled by the PRR to St Louis and then on to Texas?   It was in MOPAC blue and gray with gold striping, but had a PRR keystone on it.   This would be on my bucket list.

By the way, thanks for posting this. I look forward to your progress 

Please send photo to me offline pm. I am not aware of any  sleepers that carried a Keystone on the side.they did run a pool car that was a PRR 10 6 that was painted in the blue and Gray with PRR reporting marks. I be leave there were 10 like that . When the pool service ceased the were repainted back to PRR.

Bill

Bill

I am sure I am mistaken about the Keystone, if you are not aware of any.  The one you are referring to and showed is what I am after.   Thanks.  So I repeat my question...did anyone make these, or is that one of your own custom built cars?  (It sure looks nice!)

John Sethian posted:

Bill

I am sure I am mistaken about the Keystone, if you are not aware of any.  The one you are referring to and showed is what I am after.   Thanks.  So I repeat my question...did anyone make these, or is that one of your own custom built cars?  (It sure looks nice!)

 

John,

Des Plaines made the kit in brass for this car. It was an ACF car and names were Eagle XXXX. I have one of the kits. The Penn Texas Washington connection had one in its consist, and I used to see it frequently leaving Baltimore about 8:45 PM. Like Bill said, it didn't have a keystone on it, just THE  EAGLE on the letter board with  small PRR letters at the ends of the letter board. 

The next time GGD does a 10 and 6 I hope to have some painted in this scheme. It won't be exactly correct because it will be a P/S car rather than an ACF car  but will be close. Des Plaines also made the 14 and 4 car.

John Sethian posted:

Bill

I am sure I am mistaken about the Keystone, if you are not aware of any.  The one you are referring to and showed is what I am after.   Thanks.  So I repeat my question...did anyone make these, or is that one of your own custom built cars?  (It sure looks nice!)

 

John this started out as a Desplains Kit he did many years ago. etched sides roof and ends.

It is unfortunate Ron S has more kits but will not release them, "Not enough interest"

there were 5 kits released and then he stopped.

Bill

Thanks Bob.  What are the distinguishing features between an ACF car and a P/S car?  In looking on line I see UP ACF cars have seams below and above the windows.   So do MOPAC cars, but they are listed as P/S.  I also see some that have riveted sides.   After an hour of looking nothing seems consistent, and I am confused. I guess it is specific to both the road name and the individual history of the car.

At any rate,  If GGD makes one I would be interested.  

John

Ron has been talking about rereleasing some of the kits.  I think many of them where originally Midland Productions.   I'm heading to Chicago for the meet but plan on spending a lot of time at Des Plaines.  Perhaps I can find out what he is planning on doing.  I know he was talking about the GN full domes but with GGD announcing them he may pull those back.

t610 posted:

John Sethian posted:

Bill

I am sure I am mistaken about the Keystone, if you are not aware of any.  The one you are referring to and showed is what I am after.   Thanks.  So I repeat my question...did anyone make these, or is that one of your own custom built cars?  (It sure looks nice!)

 

John this started out as a Desplains Kit he did many years ago. etched sides roof and ends.

It is unfortunate Ron S has more kits but will not release them, "Not enough interest"

there were 5 kits released and then he stopped.

Bill

"It is unfortunate Ron S has more kits but will not release them, 'Not enough interest'"

Confused. These are ready to sell and they won't sell them or possible future production kits? Who wouldn't sell what they already have produced?

John Sethian posted:

Thanks Bob.  What are the distinguishing features between an ACF car and a P/S car?  In looking on line I see UP ACF cars have seams below and above the windows.   So do MOPAC cars, but they are listed as P/S.  I also see some that have riveted sides.   After an hour of looking nothing seems consistent, and I am confused. I guess it is specific to both the road name and the individual history of the car.

At any rate,  If GGD makes one I would be interested.  

John

John, another Bob here.

From what I've seen, the differences I notice on Seaboard cars (sleeper for example) are:

(1) Pullman cars have small fluting on the roof, large fluting above and below the windows, and small fluting on the skirting

(2) Budd cars have small fluting on the roof, small fluting above the windows, large fluting below the windows, and small fluting on the skirting

(3) ACF cars have small fluting on the roof, large fluting above and below the windows, and small fluting on the skirting

BUT...not always for every type of car.  the Pullman-built Sun-Lounges for example had smooth roofs.  Also, seems like it was RR dependent.  ACF cars Seaboard purchased from other RRs like FEC had smooth roofs.  You really have to be car specific and have good photos to even see some of these features.  Here's a good shot of the Pullman-built 10-6 Sleeper PORTSMOUTH:

You can't see the small fluting on the roof or skirting unless you enlarge the photo.

Here's a shot of the Budd-built 10-6 Sleeper MIAMI:

At first glance you'd think they were similar cars, but the fluting size, number of flutes, and window sizes and pattern are very much different.

BobbyD posted:

t610 posted:

John Sethian posted:

Bill

I am sure I am mistaken about the Keystone, if you are not aware of any.  The one you are referring to and showed is what I am after.   Thanks.  So I repeat my question...did anyone make these, or is that one of your own custom built cars?  (It sure looks nice!)

 

John this started out as a Desplains Kit he did many years ago. etched sides roof and ends.

It is unfortunate Ron S has more kits but will not release them, "Not enough interest"

there were 5 kits released and then he stopped.

Bill

"It is unfortunate Ron S has more kits but will not release them, 'Not enough interest'"

Confused. These are ready to sell and they won't sell them or possible future production kits? Who wouldn't sell what they already have produced?

future production. Not enough interest to produce and release. So Ron Has said for years.

that is why I scratch build to get remaining  cars for a consist.

The ACF/MoPac cars run on Pennsy had a severe outbreak of rivets. Can't repro this in extruded metal. Nice project in plastic if someone antes up the investement.

Thanks to everyone who replied, Bob D in particular.  I learned something

rex desilets posted:

The ACF/MoPac cars run on Pennsy had a severe outbreak of rivets. Can't repro this in extruded metal. Nice project in plastic if someone antes up the investement.

Archer rivets might be a viable solution for aluminum. Particularly if one figured out how to automate the process.  

John Sethian posted:

Thanks to everyone who replied, Bob D in particular.  I learned something

rex desilets posted:

The ACF/MoPac cars run on Pennsy had a severe outbreak of rivets. Can't repro this in extruded metal. Nice project in plastic if someone antes up the investement.

Archer rivets might be a viable solution for aluminum. Particularly if one figured out how to automate the process.  

 

 

 

 

How about Wang Chung rivets instead of Archer? GGD knows that ACF cars need to be done to get a good UP train meaning rivets will need to be applied to aluminum extrusions. All of Golden Gate's aluminum cars are essentially hand assembled so adding decal rivets doesn't seem like an impossible task. Just adds labor,  ie cost.

rheil posted:

... Wang Chung rivets......

They made rivets?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXu6QmxpJE

Who knew?

rheil posted

 

How about Wang Chung rivets instead of Archer? GGD knows that ACF cars need to be done to get a good UP train meaning rivets will need to be applied to aluminum extrusions. All of Golden Gate's aluminum cars are essentially hand assembled so adding decal rivets doesn't seem like an impossible task. Just adds labor,  ie cost.

Decal rivet strips with proper alignment and spacing on a mass-produced car? The potential for howling boggles my mind.

I think the community will have to rely on $1000 imports or get someone to do etched sides and roofs-which, of course, will require actual model building

rex desilets posted:

rheil posted

 

How about Wang Chung rivets instead of Archer? GGD knows that ACF cars need to be done to get a good UP train meaning rivets will need to be applied to aluminum extrusions. All of Golden Gate's aluminum cars are essentially hand assembled so adding decal rivets doesn't seem like an impossible task. Just adds labor,  ie cost.

Decal rivet strips with proper alignment and spacing on a mass-produced car? The potential for howling boggles my mind.

I think the community will have to rely on $1000 imports or get someone to do etched sides and roofs-which, of course, will require actual model building

Perhaps I should have been clearer.  Archer Rivets are direct contact printed, with a fast setting resin.  Think an inkjet printer like nozzle that puts outs a well defined amount of resin.  A variation on 3D printing, but with much finer resolution.

I guess, (and I am just guessing here) the way Archer prints its rivets, or any surface details, is to pre program the nozzle pattern and the indexing system to get the shape of each feature and the spacing.   

It is certainly within the realm of modern technology to do the same for a passenger car.  Hold the car in a fixed position, and then move the nozzle in pre defined steps to apply the resin drops where needed.  The resin, of course will naturally bond to the surface.

I don't know the cost, and the initial tooling the intial investment may be high.  But you now have the flexibility to apply any rivet pattern (or tread pattern, or walkway pattern or whatever you want).  In the case of brass models, my guess it will be more accurate, more uniform, and a lot faster than punching rivets from the backside.

John, I think my attempt at some humor regarding Chinese built cars got lost .

John Sethian posted:

Hold the car in a fixed position, and then move the nozzle in pre defined steps to apply the resin drops where needed.  The resin, of course will naturally bond to the surface.

John, that is a brilliant idea!!!

A CDC machine could easily do it, if the resin rivets could be made to stick to aluminum.  All that is needed (sounds so simple, right?) is a program telling the machine where to squirt out each rivet.  I'm sure the resin is heated when applied, so the heat may make them stick.

I've used Archer rivets a couple of times, the resin is firmly held onto the decal paper, it took some doing to remove one from it, but I had some trouble keeping the decal/rivets in place on the model.  A few tries and got what I was looking for, but I'm certainly no expert using them.

Well, now that we have taken this detour into rivet mounting, I hope Bill returns to post some more of his dome car progress

He could probably make some $$$ making a replacement for the Lionel dome section everyone's been talking about.

I've got a Weaver N&W dome car that I wish I could find a piece of regular roof to replace the dome!!!

John Sethian posted:

Well, now that we have taken this detour into rivet mounting, I hope Bill returns to post some more of his dome car progress

we are moving along. and it is a great day.