Drops and DCS . . .

I dont recall Atlas making a stainless track, nickle silver (very solderable), yes but not stainless. As for the drops, why did you locate your transformers at one end of the layout? I have mine in the center with 3 50 foot loops. I have at leastt 8 drops for each loop and my track blocks are about 14 feet long. They are a bit longer than recommended by barry in terms of track sections. but ive got 9's and 10's for signal strength now.

I've heard of Atlas O Stainless track, but I've never seen any.

Terry,

"No drops yet. Two engines suffer frequent "loss of power" incidents. Probably not a coincidence that both are DCS engines. None of my TMCC engines seem so affected."

Unsure what "loss of power" means here. When the MTH DCS engine looses DCS signal doesn't it keep running? If you are saying they actually stop I'd look into loss of ground/common issues.

Are these loops 52' long with the transformer on one end of the break? Or 52' down and back for 104' long loop? When you add drops for DCS signal, will you be able to break the layout into blocks?

Unsure what "loss of power" means here. When the MTH DCS engine looses DCS signal doesn't it keep running? If you are saying they actually stop I'd look into loss of ground/common issues.

Yep . If a DCS engine loses the signal it carries on with the last command given...If the speed was 10 per it carries on at ten per.

Well, I'm an idiot. 

It's nickel-silver. But I understand that it IS difficult to solder, no?

Just tried my Weller 100-140 watt iron and it appears kaput. I can feel current but it gets lukewarm only. It may never have worked properly as IIRC I never did have much luck with it. Haven't used it for years anyhow.

I see in an old thread one person drilled the track and fastened wire with a screw? Just tried that, tapped the hole. Seems to work. But, I'd prefer to solder as someplaces the track is already ballasted in place and access to drill and tap is not practical. (I know . . . ballast LAST!)

Before I go ordering a new Weller gun, solder will adhere to nickel-silver track?

As to why my transformer is at one end instead of in the middle. That's easy. I didn't know what I was doing!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've heard of Atlas O Stainless track, but I've never seen any.

It wasn't stainless, just plain steel and I've actually seen it. The rumor was that they were producing the track for Lionel to support magna-traction but FasTrack entered the picture and Atlas sold it off at close-out prices. John Pignatelli bought a bunch of it when he was building a layout before he moved back east.

Terry:

You can solder to Atlas-O Nickel-Silver track, but it requires a lot of heat and your ties can get melted. What can speed things up is to use a cut-off wheel to grind the rails in the web area (roughs them up and gets you down to "clean" metal), coat the area with soldering flux, pre-tin your wire and hit it with your Weller 140. The solder should flow onto the fluxed area quickly enough to prevent damage to too many ties.

Also, there's an almost long-forgotten technique for wiring a long block of track with a single feed. Place the "hot" wire at one end of the block and the "common" at the other end. What this does is make the resistance of the rails consistent no matter where the engine is within the block as the amount of rail the current must pass through remains pretty constant. This does require that you have good track joints without any loose connectors.

Terry Danks posted:

As to why my transformer is at one end instead of in the middle. That's easy. I didn't know what I was doing!

Easily solved by wiring in both directions, just add a Molex or similar connector at the lift out section. Many times outlets make the decision for you. Get a new gun, not worth the hassles of bad solder joints.

Terry Danks posted:

Well, I'm an idiot. 

It's nickel-silver. But I understand that it IS difficult to solder, no?

Not at all hard to solder.  I use a Dremel fiber cutoff wheel to just clean the surface at the bottom edge, and then solder,  It solders very quickly and easily with standard rosin core solder.  I use the same 100/140 Weller gun.

Or..... You can use the rail joiners to solder to!! On my layout I solder to the rail joiners. I sand the bottom of the rail joiner, then solder the wire to the bottom of rail joiner. This also helps hide the wiring from the transformer to the track (if you are mounting track onto a permanent layout (table)........rogerw.

Thanks for the many replies!

1/ By "loss of power" I mean the engine stops. Lights go out. Will not restart until I relocate it by hand to another section of track. Much more likely to happen at lower speeds. Only the DCS engines seem so affected. Not the TMCC engines.

2/I have ordered a new Weller 140/200 watt gun. Think it's just the tip on mine but an entirely new kit seems wise as the tip itself isn't so very cheap. My attempt to solder to the nickel-silver Atlas will have to wait until amazon gets the new gun to me.

3/ Some of this track is already ballasted into place, so using the rail joiners is not an option.

4/ Two 52 foot loops, more or less, as indicated in the jpg. They are all a single block though, both powered by a Z1000 located in the corner by the doorway.

Lots of experience with Atlas O nickel silver. Here is my recommendation. Run 14 gauge bus and solder 16-18 gauge to the bottom of your joiner and put electrically conductive grease in the joiner. Wire each leg of an Atlas O switch.

I have done that in large layouts and never had a power loss.

Electrically conductive grease? Is it commonly available?

As an alternative method, forum member Ingenerio No1 has developed a great method for connecting power to Atlas track.

Here is a link with pictures and here is the hole size info. Both links from his build thread. I copied his methods and it has worked well for me. Very easy and also easy to re-locate if you ever make any changes. I used OGR wire, #14 to MTH terminal strips and #16 for track drops, wired as closely as I could per Barry's book.

Terry Danks posted:

Electrically conductive grease? Is it commonly available?

 

Isn't that the grease they sell all over for light bulb bases?

Terry Danks posted:

Thanks for the many replies!

1/ By "loss of power" I mean the engine stops. Lights go out. Will not restart until I relocate it by hand to another section of track. Much more likely to happen at lower speeds. Only the DCS engines seem so affected. Not the TMCC engines.

 

Nice layout.  Do the MTH engines stop even with the smoke units turned off? Do the MTH engines stop in the exact spot each time? Not familiar with them, is a Z1000 capable of powering that much track and running trains?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've heard of Atlas O Stainless track, but I've never seen any.

GarGraves offers stainless steel track. I have used quite a bit of it.

Have you cleaned the wheels lately? Track? Though "stainless" it doesn't mean impervious. It's a general comparative statement among steel types.

Electrical grease may halt or increase conductivity.

Most "dielectric" grease seals from moisture and is non-conductive by design, but the seal usually helps long term conductivity simply by prevention of oxidation and corrosion, even slight. Silicone usally, so anything it hits will have future painting/glue issues. If on a porous surface you won't get it all out..ever.

     If you want one than encourages power flow. "Conductive" would be the keyword in the products description. Use very sparingly, messes aren't a good idea at all. Metal impregnated last I saw one.

The only issue I saw with the machine screws in the rails side, was one I couldn't see   That would be the other side, and the screw being too long, and/or too high (note the angle) and cause deep pizza cutter wheel flanges, to hit the screws threads.  I'd go straight into the rails footing for the "flat". The curves in the rails side will also not hold a connector as well for its connection, or for long term screw fastness (won't come loose as easy on a flat surface. Crushing the connector to shape helps, but it's still not a flat, so the screw head isn't seated correctly now)(we all have our own compromises we'll accept. It is a very tidy connection )

Z1000? 100w...seems iffy off hand, especially big loco's, but can motors and command? It might be fine? They run on less amperage than P.War in general.

MTH fans know a little better what it can and can't do But a PW 90w 1033 would be at its limit for many PW trains on that size layout.

  Nickle silver track- Being new track, offhand I'd think the 100w would be just enough, but I think NS track might also have more resistance per foot than regular track..? Drops with copper wire can overcome that flow issue if it does.

The plugs added here or there (molex or other brand) is a great idea. If nothing other than to have "instant remote throttle" for testing here or there. Throttle nearby as well as the "cab remote" is nice when your frustrated and trouble shooting(an eventuality for about 90% of us by my guess)

Terry Danks posted:

Electrically conductive grease? Is it commonly available?

 

Oh yes.

At work we use it for threaded conduit connections. Protects against galling, corrosion, and since it is loaded with powdered copper it is highly conductive. I put a little dab on each of my track pins. One of many sources... JEGS

Terry Danks posted:

Electrically conductive grease? Is it commonly available?

 

Dioelectric grease is found at most auto supply stores, AutoZone, Advance Auto etc..

Dielectric grease is non-conductive.

You are correct, I know that..  I must have misread the post.. Thanks for correcting me!!