Dumb Question...Matte Medium

Thats what we started buying. Works great, and no shine when it dries. Used to use regular white glue but I like the stuff from Scenic Express better.

I used Romans Wallpaper Adhesive on my layout. Diluted it 2 parts water to 1 part adhesive. Got mine at Home Depot but Lowes also carries it.

Paste

High Humidity Paste

 

Jerry

Thanks laidoff. I assume Matte Medium is the same as WS's Scenic Cement? Yea? Nay? 

Yes, I used to use the WS too, then Elmers white glue and then tried SE Matte Medium. Thats all I use for scenery and ballast work now.

Matt the only difference is we buy the concentrate...which allows us to mix our own at different ratios. It's even a little bit cheaper if you buy the concentrate and mix your own. We use different mixes for different purposes.

I ordered two gallons of the pre-mixed stuff. Don't want to mix anything, etc. Just pour and go. 

I bought the W-S scenic cement in bulk from my LHS and got the price down below $6.00 a bottle. While still expensive it wasn't bad. Meanwhile, I priced matte medium at the arts stores and it was over $20 a bottle. When you cut it half and half with water, it came out to the same price as the W-S product. With 350 of track to ballast I was going through it like water...very expensive water.

Not a dumb question...the guys at the Scenic Express booth were hard pressed to explain. I use matte medium to anchor "grass" to the surface, then once dry, spray more on to seal it. Yes you can concoct a white glue mix, but why risk screwing up? I'm not against saving money, but am cautious about being "penny-wise and pound-foolish". 

I have been using white glue and water for 30 years and never had any issues. I dilute it 1 part glue to 2 parts water. Always use wet water before applying the glue mixture. Matte medium works well but is far more expensive. In the end there's no visible difference and the holding power is the same. Some insist that white glue leaves a sheen while matte medium doesn't. I've never seen a sheen from using diluted white glue.

 I'm with  Frank 53, and he has some of the best scenery in O guage, none of which appeared to be falling off of his layout

 

I started off using Woodland Scenics "scenic cement" and then realized I was paying alot more for someone else to dilute and package white glue.

 

Its really not rocket science, and theres nothing to "screw up". I take some elmers glue and just dilute it to my likeing, if its too thick you add some more water.

 

It drys flats holds scenery material in place, and as I stated on your other thread the elmers glue nozzles makes a fantastic applicator for ballasting track.

 

The "Scenic Express" guys are going to promote branded scenery adhesives because its their livelyhood.

 

 

The Matt Medium from SE is excellent.  It seems to have a good shelf life.  Matt Medium stays a bit flexible whereas dilute glue dries hard.  Matt medium is used to extend acrylic tube paints and also as a clear coat for paintings.

 

A tip for spray bottle cleaning.  After putting water through follow up with several good squirts of rubbing alcohol.  It helps to cut the MM and clean the spray head.

 

George Lasley

 

That is correct, and that's really about the only discernible difference between Matte Medium and white glue.

Is it really cheaper to buy Elmer's and dilute it yourself? Has anyone done the math? When I was looking into Matte Medium, it was pretty expensive and didn't represent a savings. Elmer's isn't cheap either for the quantity that you need for it a large layout.

Yes, Elmer's is way cheaper than Matte Medium. I found a gallon of Elmer's white glue on Amazon for $8.45. A 16 oz bottle of Matte Medium for 19.97 is the most reasonable price I found on the net. So comparing apples to apples 8.45 to 39.94 - no contest.

Another contender is good 'ol Mod Podge.  It is essentially matte medium packaged and priced for crafters instead of artists.  It is also available in gloss. It can be purchased at Wal Mart.

A gallon of elmers is around $12, once you dilute it, you'd get several gallons of "scenic cement"

 

Prediluted(prepared) matte medium is around $16 for a gallon.

 

Concentrated matte medium is about $45

 

 

I've used Matte Medium since the late seventies, it dries to a flat finished and it helps deaden track noise.

 

Bill

I think one would be hard pressed to hear the difference, if any, between track ballasted using white glue and track ballasted using matte medium.

SJC: forget the Medium; at this stage I expect nothing but Matt Well Done!  

 

The Elmers I believed dries rock hard, the matte medium dries to a soft film. It adsorbs some of the noise, even with Brennan's Better Ballast Give it a try.

 

Bill 

I have noticed the same thing Bill. I used Elmers white glue for the ballast on my switching layout, it dried very hard, had a glossy sheen to it, and made the track sound kind of hollow with a higher pitched loudness. I used the Elmers for the scenery along the right away next to the track and was not happy with the look.

 

I bought the Matte Meduim concentrate from SE. Yes it cost more... I don't care.

 

Then I used the MM on the big layout over at my parents house. The matte medium drives very flexible, and has no sheen to it what so ever. I also noticed it changed the track noise signifigntly. It has a much lower, but deeper sound to it, probably because of the flexibility...it sort of rubberizes the whole thing.

 

2 things: Both layouts are built the same: 3/4 plywood, 1/2 homasote, cork, Gargraves track with Ross switches, and Brennan's Better Ballast. The only thing that is different is the glue. I also had flat latex paint to both types of glue to tone down the brightness (part of my weathering process) of the ballast.

 

I didn't make the switch because of noise, as I didn't know there would be a difference anyway. Matte medium cost more yes, that does not concern me either. I have no problem spending a little extra for something that gives me a better result.

 

Matt, you will not be disappointed with the matt medium. I used both, and I posted the results I experienced after trying them both. With that being said, I will pay more for the Matte Medium.    

Well let me clarify a bit: I did the same thing, with the same mix ratios, the same wet water alcohol/water mix, the same applicator, and the only thing that was different was the glue. I could see, and hear a difference using the same exactly method and materials with different glue. I posted my results and my opinion using 2 different adhesive materials.

I know Frank, you're a scenery master, and if I dont use what you use, or don't agree with you, I must be wrong and my methods are wrong. I just can't ballast track for crap, my mistake for posting my opinion.