So the car dumps and then it shorts out the layout...almost at the same time? If no bare wires, then I would think the coil might be shorted. And it manages to dump before the breaker goes.

You shouldn't be dumping for 10 seconds, is the coil energized all that time?

Another thought, it's quite possible that the release of the coil energy is generating a spike.  If you have a sensitive circuit breaker like the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon or perhaps the PSX-AC electronic breaker, it could be tripping it with a false trigger.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

You shouldn't be dumping for 10 seconds, is the coil energized all that time?

Another thought, it's quite possible that the release of the coil energy is generating a spike.  If you have a sensitive circuit breaker like the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon or perhaps the PSX-AC electronic breaker, it could be tripping it with a false trigger.

I'm using it with a TMCC Track Lockon and legacy system and Power Master 180. 

It is being triggered with a ERR  Mini Commander II.

John

cjack posted:

So the car dumps and then it shorts out the layout...almost at the same time? If no bare wires, then I would think the coil might be shorted. And it manages to dump before the breaker goes.

Thank for your suggestion.  Is there a way to check for a short?

john

John Graser posted:

I'm using it with a TMCC Track Lockon and legacy system and Power Master 180. 

It is being triggered with a ERR  Mini Commander II.

Mini Commander II?  That's for motorized units, I'd think you'd be using a standard Mini Commander (ACC) board, that's what I used in a couple of these dumpcars.

Unfortunately there is no easy way to check for a shorted coil, because the resistance reading of a shorted coil is very close to the reading of a good coil. The only way to accurately check a coil is to use an instrument called a coil ringer. Perhaps a TV repair shop may have one and can check your coil for you.

Larry

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John Graser posted:

I'm using it with a TMCC Track Lockon and legacy system and Power Master 180. 

It is being triggered with a ERR  Mini Commander II.

Mini Commander II?  That's for motorized units, I'd think you'd be using a standard Mini Commander (ACC) board, that's what I used in a couple of these dumpcars.

 

gunrunnerjohn,

I double checked and it is a Mini comander ACC (sorry about that).

I do have mine wired slightly different then the standard install. I have an output for each coil coupler (so both can be triggered independently) and the low voltage output controls a relay that controls the dump solenoid.

John

gunrunnerjohn posted:

You shouldn't be dumping for 10 seconds, is the coil energized all that time?

Another thought, it's quite possible that the release of the coil energy is generating a spike.  If you have a sensitive circuit breaker like the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon or perhaps the PSX-AC electronic breaker, it could be tripping it with a false trigger.

gunrunnerjohn,

Would putting a TVS in series with the relay help prevent spikes.

John

The TVS goes across the power, not in series.  It looks like an open circuit until it reaches it's trigger voltage.  The TVS can't hurt, it's hard to know if it'll help.  The coil does generate a nice spike when you remove power, it's like your car spark coil.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The TVS goes across the power, not in series.  It looks like an open circuit until it reaches it's trigger voltage.  The TVS can't hurt, it's hard to know if it'll help.  The coil does generate a nice spike when you remove power, it's like your car spark coil.

Thanks i'll try one and see if it helps.

John

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

...You shouldn't be dumping for 10 seconds, is the coil energized all that time?

Did I miss the answer to this question?  I thought the solenoid snaps instantly when activated so only need to activate for a second at most - plus maybe a couple follow-up pulses to shake all the coal loose.  Or is this a limitation in how long it takes to de-activate the solenoid when going thru the Mini Commander plus relay combo?

If impractical to troubleshoot the mechanism, another option would be to install a 25 cent resettable thermal fuse (PTC) in series with the coil.  This would cut power to the solenoid after a couple seconds of continuous activation before the solenoid "shorts" (if that's what is happening). 

The MC drops the power pretty quickly, there's no reason to energize the coil for that kind of time.  I have a couple of dump cars, a coal and a log car, both converted to TMCC with the MC.  No coil overheating with mine.