What is considered the normal, or standard safe distance, between the edge of your table and the edge of your O27 gauge track. Is it different depending on whether you are talking a long straight away and a small 027 radius curve?
Thanks
Mannyrock
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If the idea is to protect a locomotive that turns over from going two fast around a curve, I'd want six inches. But I always put a three inch high piece of wood on the outside. The 1 1/2 inches from the track center (third rail) will do for most O-27, but to be sure maybe 1 3/4. Any Lionel postwar will be OK with 2" from the center rail. I've tested that with the worst case overhang passenger cars and locomotives. Don't know about anything made after 1969.
The key measure for a guard rail is that it should be a bit above the center of gravity of an overturning locomotive.
If you go with the minimum to protect a roll over, you may not have room for a street, sidewalk or any scenery. This may defeat what you want to do along a wall. You might give some thought as to what you want to place between the edge of the table and the track. John
@rattler21 posted:If you go with the minimum to protect a roll over, you may not have room for a street, sidewalk or any scenery. This may defeat what you want to do along a wall. You might give some thought as to what you want to place between the edge of the table and the track. John
I have an advantage there. I model railroads only to the edge of the track and roadbed.
Equipment has 2 overhangs in curves, stringline between trucks (inside of curves), and at the car/loco overhang at the car ends, pilots and cab(kick out)(overhand to the outside of curves).
The loco pilot overhang extends a few(2-3) inches beyond exiting a curve & onto a straight. Cab.roofs can kickout on the straight while entering a curve too. So the clearance does need to extend past the curves a few inches.
Tighter curves have more overhang than large.
Worst offenders are cowcatchers (low), pilot beams "porches" and rails (mid) and cab roofs on steam (up high).
On 0-27 I use about 2¼"-2½". I usually use a scrap of soft, rough cut 2x4 and a scrap or two of paneling, stacked.(rough cut is thicker than finished 2x4 measurements fyi. A finished 2x4 is smaller than 2" x 4".)
I stand the 2x4(x4ish tall) to the wall and butt up to it. On open areas before scenery, I stand the 2x4 where an obstacle will be, and see if it wobbles or falls from the roll by. Soft woods usually show light scrapes, but freshly dried semi-dry craft paint shows scrapes real well too.
Test every engine you own, note the clearances needed at low, med, high.
Inside overhang is dependent on total wheelbase length. Longer wb has more inside overhang. Steam has practically none. Watch tanks & toolboxes center mounted, as they will hang lower than the body/frame. I just used my eyes there. After decades of 0-27 turnouts, I just make sure I exceed the track to turnout motor cover distance. (0-27 (1122) turnouts rolling equipment choices are more limited than a plain 0-27 curve, due to the sw. cover hitting low tanks/toolboxes. The offening cover corner can be trimmed off and closed again with some scrap plastic allowing more variety without clipping.)
I like the rails close to the long edge near me for easier railing of stock.
I built mine to be seen from one side, but ended up with the front to the (½) wall just because railing things was so much easier. (The front can still be seen over the ½wall , but leaniñg in is a small challenge with near a foot of reach wasted to the layout edge and sunken floor there to boot)
Ive never rolled a train off the làyout. Ive rolled them plenty, but non fell so far. The open space at the corners does fine for me. I also have some door molding as frame trim, overhung/offset so there is a ¼"- 3/16" vertical ridge above ground level too.
I have 0 inside clearance on a shelf layout. Ties hang over, rail is even with the edge. I have had two or three derailments on straights where they fell. No damages... I don't know how, but no damages.
I almost tore it down in fear it would clock someone's mellon, but I've gotten over that long ago. Once every few years is acceptable for my level of visitors in that room... but a PW steamer from 10ft... yep, that was scary. (It also a bedroom, so there really is a better chance it hits the bed, another shelf/desk, or lands in the room renters shoe boxes or dirty clothes pile. (won't use the hamper I bought them 
....lucky me, I guess 
)
You can never say never. I have been fortunate with no floor crashes. 
In more than three years my only derailment has been at 4smph when a wheel climbed a point-rail at a switch. The Plywood Empire Route is pretty much a shelf layout.
Well, going back to my early days of having a big HO layout, it was not at all uncommon for the engines, running at high speed, to fail to hold even a large curve and roll off of the track rather violently.
With the HO trains, they can travel really really fast, so you had to be careful all of the time on curves and switches.
Maybe the O gauge engines don't get up to those speeds?
Mannyrock
[Opinion]
This has been discussed for years and there's still no general consensus. If you're absolutely positive there will be no derailments, you could put the ties right at the edge, but coming within a couple of inches of the edge would likely hit a train on a curve.
I think it really comes down to the ability to have some scenery between the edge of the bench work and the tracks. That could be as little as three inches to more than 18 inches depending on your space and what you're trying to achieve.
The key is to have reliable, derailment-free operation so you never have to find out. Good, clean track work and reliable rolling stock.
[/Opinion]
When my dad built our first table-top layout, he enclosed the surface with 1x4 "walls" around the edges of the platform to stop trains from falling onto the floor. I think the center rail was set inward 2 1/2" from the inside of the perimeter wall. We had starter set locos, and our track was O27. If you run articulated steam, especially, you'll need to leave much more than 2 1/2" for clearance.
You could go to the very edge on long straights, but it's risky. Remember, the rolling stock is actually WIDER than the track. If your standing space is tight, you risk someone brushing it with their shoulder, etc. Personally I would do that only if you can't make your track plan work any other way.
I use 1. 1/4 inch about the side of the layout for facia. Then I place the track on 2 inch center from the edge.
I tested the 1 1/4 inch by putting a loco next to it and manually tilting it to see if it could fall off. At that height, the center of gravity of the loco on a track 2 inches from the edge, stays on the layout - it can't fall off. I used 1/8 inch masonite for facia and mount strips that stick 1 1/4 inches about the side.
I did this on 2 rail track which is lower profile. You could test it and see, maybe with the taller 3 rail track you need 1 1/2 inches.
Oh, man.
Manny when they have a ZW kicking cast PW, a hole in the wall is possible.
@Adriatic posted:Equipment has 2 overhangs in curves, stringline between trucks (inside of curves), and at the car/loco overhang at the car ends, pilots and cab(kick out)(overhand to the outside of curves).
The loco pilot overhang extends a few(2-3) inches beyond exiting a curve & onto a straight. Cab.roofs can kickout on the straight while entering a curve too. So the clearance does need to extend past the curves a few inches.
Tighter curves have more overhang than large.
Worst offenders are cowcatchers (low), pilot beams "porches" and rails (mid) and cab roofs on steam (up high).
On 0-27 I use about 2¼"-2½". I usually use a scrap of soft, rough cut 2x4 and a scrap or two of paneling, stacked.(rough cut is thicker than finished 2x4 measurements fyi. A finished 2x4 is smaller than 2" x 4".)
I stand the 2x4(x4ish tall) to the wall and butt up to it. On open areas before scenery, I stand the 2x4 where an obstacle will be, and see if it wobbles or falls from the roll by. Soft woods usually show light scrapes, but freshly dried semi-dry craft paint shows scrapes real well too.
Test every engine you own, note the clearances needed at low, med, high.
Inside overhang is dependent on total wheelbase length. Longer wb has more inside overhang. Steam has practically none. Watch tanks & toolboxes center mounted, as they will hang lower than the body/frame. I just used my eyes there. After decades of 0-27 turnouts, I just make sure I exceed the track to turnout motor cover distance. (0-27 (1122) turnouts rolling equipment choices are more limited than a plain 0-27 curve, due to the sw. cover hitting low tanks/toolboxes. The offening cover corner can be trimmed off and closed again with some scrap plastic allowing more variety without clipping.)
I like the rails close to the long edge near me for easier railing of stock.
I built mine to be seen from one side, but ended up with the front to the (½) wall just because railing things was so much easier. (The front can still be seen over the ½wall , but leaniñg in is a small challenge with near a foot of reach wasted to the layout edge and sunken floor there to boot)
One exception to the inside on steam engines. I found the eccentric crank to be the inside clearance on a Berkshire.
Yea, those overhang everywhere though, lol. Deep, wide, offset.
I think those also clip things like brakeman and giraffe trackside actuators too. (And the actuator slides also clip some steps on a few PW things. Braking some off (early Madisons? or maybe a streamliner car with Es.?).
Hey NJC Joe,
How bout rippin out one of those big beautiful bridges you've got and sending it to me. It's the last thing I need to complete my track line. :-) You've got two, so you should share!
Hi Manny Rock.
on those tight curves with traditional sized trains ( postwar Lionel, rail king MTH and others termed 027 type) I have had great luck to Bank (or elevate) the curves. This is not for everyone but has served me well. I use 031 curves and they are close to the table edge. Note that PW Lionel magne-traction has helped. I have Had no luck attempting to find the video to place here for you to see. Maybe a forum member can do the Video detective work. It might be in the history of what did you do on your layout posts. I banked my curves and have had Zero derailments running at all kinds of speeds! Some people think that is high risk behavior! Lol.
.
It depends on who and how you operate and how you value your trains. If kids, non engineers or those who tend to race or run fast trains you need at least 6 inch to edge and a one inch high rail. My layout is sunk in 1 inch in the 1x6 side board and mostly 4 to 6 inches from the edge and that would be my minimum. It can not hurt to have carpet on you floors if possible.
If you have those $600 to 1500 trains are even prewar trains you value worth $100-200 you will want to be conservative and protect your train by not placing them close to the edge. I have always wondered about those elevated tracks with bare rails and do not have any elevated tracks.
Some operate at slow realistic speeds which are much safer. But some like me have some fast light engines like Marx 999 and 1998 diesel and Lionel 242 steamers that take very little voltage to accelerate and run very fast and run on 027 curves.
But remember even careful, caring and responsible people can make mistakes operating and crash a train.
Charlie
"If kids, non engineers or those who tend to race or run fast trains you need at least 6 inch to edge and a one inch high rail."
That's me Choo Choo!
Mannyrock
Just a quick word on Banking curves.
the correct term is super elevation.
Non technical explanation: one increases the outside rail height to bank the curve Track inward. I used wooden clothes pins (the kind with a spring) trimmed off. As such they were used as shims Inserted under the outside edge of the track ties.
just say’in.
it always fascinates me to watch the engine and train cars lean into the curve in their travel especially close to the edge. Use caution if tried. This is not a common practice to have less Edge buffer real estate.
I have used banked curves on my O27 layout for 40 years. I used cut off popsicle sticks, one then two and back to one layers . I recently got a Lionel 561, 0-8-0 loco and it derailed on many curves. I found if removed the banking on those curves all was well. I removed banking on at least one half of them.
I noticed my train racing daughter derailed the Marx 1998 much more often on a recent visit.
Charlie
I have about 3-4 inches. 1) I normally do not run my trains fast. 2) The outside rails are O84 curves, I have run an MPC B&M GP-9 at full speed and it did not jump the track ( it was just a test to see how well it was operating, seeing I had just bought it and wanted to test it out. here is a pic of my only straight away not along a wall. Note this was during construction mode.
You just need enough room to make sure that your train will not fall off.
A little story...I was doing some photos for OGR and wanted some long exposure shots of a speeding Berkshire passenger train. The long exposer would blur the train to make it look like it was really going fast. The only track that was next to the edge of the layout was a short siding about three feet long that I though would be safe because of the length. I would never run a train fast on that short of a siding. WRONG! I started the train out fast and around it went. What I didn't know was the siding was open. I was shooting the shot and not anywhere near the transformer. I watched my then new K-line scale Berkshire hit the bumper and fly off the layout on to the cement floor. Two months later and a lot of money I got it back from Brasseur Trains and it ran fine. I will never build any rail close to the edge again. Couldn't believe I left that siding open. Don
That's what I mean Don, . . .Stuff Happens!
And with kids running the trains, . . . Somethin's Gonna Happen!
Allow enough room to avoid this.
And this:
@scale rail posted:A little story...I was doing some photos for OGR and wanted some long exposure shots of a speeding Berkshire passenger train. The long exposer would blur the train to make it look like it was really going fast....
If you ever have to do this again, it isn't necessary to run the train fast. If you set the camera correctly, running it slowly will give the same blurred affect.
A long shutter speed (1 to 2 seconds) and small f-stop will do the trick.
Accidents are a part of this hobby. As posted before, I'd recommend making sure there is no overhang and go with that distance. At least that's what I've done.
-Greg
I will say that it really depends on your confidence. Are you going to run everything at full speed? if you do then expect a derailment or a turn over.
When I was a youngster, I did that on purpose. Full out, Now, I am very careful not to run at full speed, unless I am trying to beat it into the next block. But still I am very aware of curves.
Your layout, you can decide how you will operate.
@Rich Melvin posted:If you ever have to do this again, it isn't necessary to run the train fast. If you set the camera correctly, running it slowly will give the same blurred affect.
A long shutter speed (1 to 2 seconds) and small f-stop will do the trick.
I can second this. I made this shot in late February or early March with the engine at 45 Legacy speed steps, which I think is something like 10 or 15 scale mph. With 1/8 sec shutter speed, it looks like she's going 70!
(ignore the warm white balance, didn't know I was shooting in daylight mode at the time lol)
Another reason to have more space between the track and the edge is if your run multiple trains on the same track. If a train gets rear-ended, cars jack-knife and go everywhere. If they're close to the edge, some are going to take a trip to the floor.
Just a thought.
@TrainMan1225 posted:
(ignore the warm white balance, didn't know I was shooting in daylight mode at the time lol)
Not a problem. Two minutes in Photoshop...
I had a steam locomotive travel well over a foot on the train board before taking a nose dive to the floor when it hit a misaligned switch. It still sports a broker headlamp. Under the right set of circumstances a loco or car can manage to travel a fair distance after leaving the tracks. It is less about what is the minimum distance to keep your locos and cars safe and more about what is a reasonable tradeoff between keeping them safe and giving up real estate that could be used to enhance enjoyment. For me that balance is usually about 3". If you are that worried about your trains ending up on the floor I would suggest putting wall of plexiglass around the layout.
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