Eliminating Walwarts for Lemax accessory + Some Wiring Techniques

Wow Dale! That is one impressive layout. Makes me proud to say there may be some of my Plasticville on there. I'll bet the underside is just as impressive, using all that Pinball knowledge of yours. Great work.

Dale:

 

This is very well done. Very helpful. Thanks. 

 

I cant ant believe how many of these Buck things are offered. Do you have a favorite you'd recommend? Point us to a particular eBay listing? 

 

Can an you also point us to the timer you describe? 

 

Steve. 

 

 

Great looking layout.

Fantastic

EXCELLENT!   Joe

Awesome! I can't tell you how this will able me to power up my street Lamps without those ridiculous chords and/ or batteries.

We need more close-ups of that layout, looks like a fun one!

Very nice Dale. Unique ideas throughout. I recall from a previous post you mentioned the rehab of the school building.

 

What, no pole from the bumper cars up to a metal ceiling?

 

Dave 

Looks great Dale. Thanks for posting the pictures. Looks like a lot of progress since seeing just the bare track on the layout a while back. Lots of other stuff added as well. Was that a Skee Ball machine in the background? My grand kids love those. Looks like a kids paradise. All you need now is to get those real bumper cars operational.

 

That old school building is also amazing. What year was it built? Does it still have the original mechanical systems in it? What kind of heat does it have? I have a thing for old buildings like that. Been in many during my working years and I would rather investigate and admire their construction techniques than work on them watching all the old mechanical systems being demolished so we could replace them with new systems. Unfortunately too much looking and admiring would have probably resulted in a search for a new employer, so I just snuck in a look here and there whenever I could. 

 

Please keep the pictures and wiring tips coming. Many of us really enjoy looking at them. I know it's off topic, but if the old mechanical systems are still in tact a few pictures of those snuck in with the others would be great too, if it's not too much trouble.

Dale, that is absolutely fantastic! The layout, the decorating with the collectibles and the building are all great. I see you are an equal opportunity person with the inclusion of a Gilbert 596 operating water tank on the layout. I have a few tongue in cheek responses to people who ask about my hobbies. If asked if I am trying to relive my childhood I tell them absolutely not, I am still living my childhood! The corollary is I have to grow old but I do not have to grow up.

Keep up the great work and contributions to our collective knowledge Dale.

Thanks to every one for their kind words and interests. The buck converters are sold by several vendors on Ebay. Purchasing from China is a crap shoot  but I have bought lots of things without trouble. 

 

The Skee ball is all mechanical. The first thing the grandkids play when they visit.I will try to post some more pics later. 

 

There is a guy who sells kits to motorize the bumper cars with a battery motor,kind of like a golf cart. Originally they had electric motors,I think 220 volts. 

 

The school building was built in 1908,an 8 room school house. Grades 1 to 11. The 12th grade was optional and not needed for a diploma. People stop from time to time and tell me all kinds of stories. Just yesterday a fellow stopped to photo it and told me about his second grade teacher he was in love with in 1973. She walked around with a paddle with holes in it! My kind of woman!

 

Originally the upper school roof was flat and had 3 brick 10X10 chimneys coming out. 3 coal furnaces were in the cellar and each room had duct work. There are 56 windows,most of the are 51X86 in size.  I replaced them with contractor windows the same size. it was in very bad shape when I bought it about 13 years ago.  The building is roughly 78X75 feet,2 stories,  and the chimneys are structural also.  They tie the outer walls to the triangular center. I think the design is German and it is very strong. The framing is rough cut 2X6 and 2X12 chestnut. There are spans and boards as long as 32 feet. I now heat it with Rinnai space haters and propane. I tried during restoration to keep the architectural features and removed added walls and stair cases. I matched the original wall colors and put back the  slate black boards upstairs. Many of them were vandalized and stuff broken. I matched some original glass still made in Pittsburg. I bought an old bell just like the original and put it in the bell tower. The school sits between the old B&O,now CSX and the Western Maryland rails lines.,now a bike path. In the summer I bike every day,down to the Keystone bridge and back,about 14 miles round trip. Got to move when you get old. Somewhere in the real trains section I made a post on the trail with some pics if you can find it there.

 

So the whole thing is a labor of love and preservation of history. Sadly many such buildings are left in disrepair and torn down. I am not at home so I don't have access to my photos. I will try to post later. 

 

To Tom

 

I never grew up and I am 65. I make no apologies. 

 

To others I will try to get more picas of the wiring and layout. I use a common return.The layout is all automated and conventional. There are 4 main loops. 3 trains run one at a time from a staging area in the room behind.So that maks 16 trains all together on the layout.  Only 1 train runs on a loop at a time. My intent was to have trains come and go in the living area,but not too often like real trains. The 5th loop inside has 4 trains running in opposite direction staged on a long passing siding. It intersects a trolley line in 2 places,where the trolley waits for the train. There are also 3 trolleys,also staged which run one at a time. So that makes 16 trains all together on the layout.

 

The track is a combination of O tubular. The pouter 4 loops are O120 shadow rail. The inner loop is O 96. The trolley loop is O31.

 

Outside I added a super streets setup. I made a block system so multiple cars would run on the loop without colliding. So I guess I could run up to a dozen cars when I get them.

 

Many thanks to Gunrunner John for posting about the buck converters. I used to make up linear regulators which do the job but these save time and even money. I read and learn things here too. You can get a real education here from people generous enough to share their knowledge. Over the years I learned so much from Dale Manquen and F Mcguire. Hope I spelled his name right. 

Will post later and thanks again to all for their kind words. 

 

Found a shot of the school

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dale H

Hi Steve

 

For timers,there are many I use,even cycle timers with 2 dials. These can be expensive and not readily available on the secondary markets. . Combining Mars timers and relays,most anything can be accomplished in model railroading. The MTH accessories only need one timer and 1 DPDT relay. The Lemax is more complicated. 

 

LINK

 

For the buck converters,there are many listings,here is one of many. Because it is from china I can't recommend any one supplier but I have had good luck so far. Make sure it is AC to DC. Search around for a deal. I purchased 40 of them,I forget which vendor plus they move around. 

 

LINK

 

Link3

 

Dale H

 

 

Love the restoration of the schoolhouse, unfortunately to many older buildings that could easily be converted are torn down.

As for the bumper cars, there is a group that comes to "Cruising Grand" every once in awhile. Street legal and look like a lot of fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Here are some pictures of the layout and what I am wiring up. There are a lot of lamposts,lighted buildings and accessories etc In my next post I will try to show my approach as to how they are being wired. I plan to put miller signs on top of some of the buildings.  Click on any photo to enlarge

 

 

 

Dale H

I created a monster to go next to my UFO and Hindenburger diner.

 

 I purchased this on Ebay

 

I lighted up the eye with a flicKering LED

 

In the 1953 movie,Gene Barry chopped off the probe from the space ship. I took artistic license and made the probe emanate from the back of his head.

 

On the left,aliens dine at the UFO diner and are having a picnic. Later I might add a girl being roasted over a flickering fire. Well I wont,my wife says no.

 

A buck converter powers the 2 flickering LEDs. It needs filtered DC and I turned down the brightness.

 

Dale H

Here are some photos of the unfinished other room where the trains come from. Excuse the mess it is under construction. The track is all laid and working though.  The room is 30 X 60

 

 

 

Dale H

Looks great lots of detail well laid out.

Good sized space would love to have that much open room.

 

You also can consider using the MTH AIU's DC in and can use the AIU set up to set the volts you want and program a show to turn them on and off at set times can run several off of each AIU port.

Dale,

 

I think if I walked into that room I would never leave.

Thanks for the pictures and added building info. Sounds like you have done a lot of work on it too. That really is a neat old building. Would love to have one just like it and would love to see it someday. The space inside it looks great too. So much space for a layout, or anything else you would want to do in there with plenty of room to spare. If you find any more pictures, please post them. I agree with NJCJOE above, once I got in there I would not want to leave (but you have a LOT of room, you would never even notice I was still there...).

 

I am not familiar with the Rinnai space heaters, but I looked them up and they look like first class units and should be pretty efficient. Hope they are doing a good job with the heat. Did you just abandon the duct work and install the heating units in the rooms? I suppose there is no A/C? Some of those old buildings stayed pretty cool with no A/C. My grandparents had a pretty large old house in mid town and they had no A/C, they had fans. I don't ever remember being too hot there and I was there a lot as a kid. They would open the house at night and close it up in the morning. They seemed to keep the cooler night air inside during the hot parts of the day. But that was a LONG time ago and my memories could be off a little. Of course no one had A/C back then so we were used to it just being that way. Sorry I got off topic here, now back to normal programming.

 

Your layout looks really nice too, lots of progress. and the Martian is really neat too. I bet your wife would allow you to roast a male (instead of a female) over a flickering fire.

 

Now I want one of the bumper cars Doug W. posted...

The school never had a lot of ductwork. Each room bordered a side of the chimney,which was double walled. Each room was approximately 1000 square feet with 12 foot ceilings. Later radiators were put in but they were stolen.  The chimneys were knocked down below the roof line and I added a vented Rinnai heater in each room. They are about 28000 BTU. In the halls I have unvented heater to supplement and for power failures and to keep the building from freezing in the winter.. I insulated the attic. No real need for AC in the mountains here. The price of propane was high but has come down,making it easier. 

 

The building is our second home,our main residence is an old church built in 1906. Actually it is harder to heat because of the cathedral ceiling. I have a layout in it also. Curves are O 81 so I run O27,  The school layout is my second layout and I can run O scale stuff when finished.. 

 

Dale H

Getting to the wiring process for those who asked

 

The accessories,lights buildings etc were mounted on top,holes drilled and wires pushed down under the layout. Many buildings were converted to LED lighting.  Lots of wires,somewhat of a mess. Click on photos to enlarge

 

 

 

All these have to be hooked to the proper bus.

 

I have a common ground return for all circuits, made from 2 loops of 12-2 Romex house wire.  That is 6, 12 gauge wires providing 120 amp capacity with little resistance. I use ground bars for connectors looped around the layout spaced for convenient hookup. If the wire is white or green,it goes to the ground bar. This method shortens wire runs and is cheap to buy.

 

 

 

All red wires go to the lighting bus.  2 different circuits of #12 Romex. The bare wire is the lighting bus. The black and white wires connected to the  brown and white plugs are used for 4 track buses on the outside. 16 gauge indoor extension cords plug in and make connections to the respective track center rail.

 

 

 

This white wire is an extension off the lighting bus hot for screw terminal hookup. It is not a ground wire and I will put a red tape marker tracer on it to designate it is not a common. I know that now when my mind is fresh, and red wires will be connected to it, but if I look at it in a year I may forget if I have to work on it. Lowes,Walmart and home centers sell colored role sets of electrical tape. Color code everything and write it down for future use to avoid confusion.

 

Wire nuts make connections to larger wires which connect to the bus.(#20 solid bell wire was used for much of the streetlamps and buildings with bulbs. #22 red and white stranded was used to LED strips in buildings. Purple and yellow are used for accessory hots.) Then the wire is stapled to the underside. Here is a sample section,it gets a bit neater.

 

 

 

A 3 wire accessory bus is made from a 16 gauge outdoor extension cord. This is cheap,good wire. It makes up a relay power bus and 2 accessory ones. It loops the layout with spaced hookups. One for track side activated accessories such as gates and another for layout accessories such as the MTH gas station. The Euro barrier strips are color coded with yellow,red and black jumpers. Non automated accessories such as the hobby shop will go to the layout accessory bus. Others will go through a cycle timer circuit,then to the bus to activate the accessory periodically. Block signals will be activated with relays and insulated rails.

 

 

 

Other buses on the layout are for the 5th train loop,and the trolley. Made with extension cords. 2,#16 gauge wires on an indoor cord make an effective 13 gauge bus. 3 #16s together from an outdoor cord are used as a bus to the 5th loop to lessen voltage drop.

 

Here are the transformers powering the layout. I have not yet installed the 12 V lighting transformer.

 

The 2 ZWs provide 4 circuits for the outer loops. The hots go to breakers and a TVS,then to an acceleration/deceleration/automated bell/whistle relay board and finally to the respective track. The U terminals all go to the ground bus.

 

 

 

 

An  LW powers the 5th loop (acceleration board underneath) . Another LW powers the trolley. A k-line powers the superstreets. The 180 watt Lionel brick goes to a bridge rectifier and capacitor and provides 24 VDC for all the relays for automation. The minus of the bridge rectifier goes to the common ground bus. The KW is used for the 2 accessory buses.

 

This board provides collision avoidance and speed variation for the superstreets. I run them on DC power through a rectifier. The capacitor provide for coasting stops.

 

 

This board stages 3 trolleys on the loop and provides soft start,plus voltage compensation for uphill,downhill.

 

 

 

These 4 boards stage 3 trains on their respective loops with soft stop.

 

 

 

Later when I do it, I will post the timers,etc for the accessories. The layout is all conventional and automated. The transformer throttles are not used. Speed is regulated by the relays. Bridge rectifiers and diode voltage dropper taps are used as the automated throttle switched by relays.

 

Dale H

Dale,

Well I'm glad I took a look at this topic!  It goes far beyond wall warts.  The building and layout is fantastic!  I only got a vague idea of the location.  What town is it located in or near?  What are you using the other rooms for?  Your wiring in general makes a lot of sense.  Thank you for the photo documentation.  I really like it!

Mark, it is in western Pa. Nearest larger town is Meyersdale. 

 

Dale H

Dale,

Yes, that makes sense to me.  Near the Formwr WM and Allegheny Passage.  Great job!!

Thanks for posting this Dale. My head is spinning a bit and I will have to study this some more to understand it. But i like the conventional approach and intend to use your approach in my layout, but a bit more scaled down. 

Dale, If you get a chance, there is a thread suffering from a lack of that alien plateau.

 

 https://ogrforum.com/t...id=43947466652941755

Finally finished wiring the lighting and lamp posts. Accessories will be wired later on a different circuit. Let there be light, and there was light! Lots of lights and buildings with a high current draw. Click on any photo to enlarge.

 

 

 

To supply power I used a 600 watt Malibu garden transformer,about 100 bucks on Ebath + shipping

 

 

 

This thing is actually 2, 300 watt transformers in a package. Each circuit puts out 12 volts up to 25 amps. Each circuit has a slow thermal breaker. This is adequate to protect the 12 gauge buss line and the transformer. However, each 25 amp buss branches off into about 8 or 9 taps with 16 gauge wire to a barrier strip. To that 20 and 22 gauge wire to the lamp posts,buildings,etc.  This is a little scary, especially with old Marx lamp posts and the like. So time to protect the branch lines. For that I shall use polyfuses. I ordered some but they have not arrived yet. So,I will use what I have in my parts supply. I have .65 amp and 1.3 amp ones. If wired in parallel the value can be increased to carry higher loads. Here are the polyfuses used and the fuses mounted in parallel on barrier strips. I soldered multiple units together. The number of fuses depends on what is hooked to the individual branch line. I used from 2 to 9.

 

 

 

When powered up,a few of the branches lighted,then tripped the breakers. I added more fuses in parallel until they carried the load to the branch. The way the fuses work is that they heat up and trip,then reset when power is removed and they cool off.  When I got this right,and the layout stayed lighted, I tested each branch by shorting out a lamp post. each time I tripped out a section of lights,until the whole layout was dark. I then knew I did not miss anything. This adds protection and also makes trouble shooting short circuits easier.  Instead of half the layout going out in a short,only a section with a dozen lights and buildings do. It would be a nightmare otherwise finding a short..

 

To lessen the load a bit and to improve lighting, I converted many buildings to LED lighting. The Lionel factory for example is a nice piece but is very inadequately lighted with 2 power hungry light bulbs. This thing does not even come apart completely, I spent a couple of hours converting it and the work was tedious but well worth the effort. It has a very nice interior that did not show with the factory lighting. Instead of 8 watts,it now uses about 1 watt and lighting is much brighter and more well distributed.

 

 

 

Next I will wire up the accessories as mentioned on a different circuit. I will use a KW. I started making the boards. To start, I have 4 MTH accessories. 2 Gas stations,a Mobil and Sinclair,the fire house and car wash. These have 5 leads and all activate the same by momentary push button. 2 leads are for lighting,which can be paralleled with the mechanism or wired separately,so 3 wires come out if done this way. . I chose to parallel them but ran an extra wire if I wanted to change to the lighting circuit above. Below is a pic of board,the relay contacts will take the place of the push buttons or be used with them if desired. The timer modules are Artisan,more expensive than the Mars and have a binary switch settings for up to about 17 minutes. The Mars timers only have 8 minutes maximum and I desired a longer duration. They wire the same way as the Mars timers,shown in the link. The only difference is that these capsules drop voltage by about 10 volts to the load, so 12 volt DC relays are used instead of 24VDC ones. Power for the modules and relays is supplied by my 24VDC relay buss described in previous posts. Using such modules and relays,most any automation can be done as shown in this link.

 

LINK

 

 

 

In my next post I will show these hooked up to the MTH accessories and report the results. Then I will make a board for 2 Lionel accessories, the Barber shop and hobby shop which work differently.

 

Dale H

Let there be light! That is spectacular! 

The Malibu transformers are a good idea. I have some 300W Malibu's but I have never seen a 600W. 

Dale,

Thanks for sharing this device with us! I've ordered a dozen to take care of my Lemax and Dept56 accessories. It occurs to me that you can use them to power the buildings for Radiator Springs (Pixar's Cars movie). These all use 3 AAA batteries, so 4.5 vdc. My question is how many can I put on one converter? Unfortunately, I have no idea what the draw for these buildings is. If they use LEDs, then one will probably work nicely. But what if they use GOR bulbs? Any convenient way to tell?

 

Chris

Chris ,

 

I don't know for sure. The converters are rated for 3 amps input so, it depends on the input voltage and what is drawn off of it. Anything run off batteries would not draw a whole lot of current. I would keep the draw down to 2 amps or less. That would drive maybe 50+ LEDs,depending on how they are wired. That would be a whole bunch of buildings.  I think maybe 2 Miller signs could be powered. They are so cheap,I will use more than less to be safe. See how hot they get in operation or use an amp meter to see what it is pulling. 

 

Units with 3 AAA batteries can be 4.5 volts or 3 volts,you have to check the battery configuration. I have seen some things,like clocks with 2 batteries in parallel in series with a third. The voltage can be adjusted way down but input must be a little over output. 

 

I am wiring things now,will posts some more tips later. My wife says I have to cut the grass today , so no layout work!

 

Dale H

 

 

 

 

Been doing some wiring and marking insulated rails to activate track side accessories. I have flashers,warning bells,block signals etc. The Gate man presents a special problem.

 

So, here is a further application of the buck converter. I have a Lionel Gate man with Wile E. Coyote coming out of the shack. At 12 volts AC the accessory works,but buzzes and the coil seems to overheat. There seems to be a lot of reports here of the solenoid burning out with this and similar type units.   So I experimented  with running it on DC. I hook up the converter and find that it opens at 6VDC and is silent. Click on photo to enlarge.

 

 

 

Problem is,after it is on for a while,the solenoid heats up. When power is removed and restored,the 6 volts is inadequate to open the door fully. Under this condition it takes about 8.5 VDC to open the door. Not sure how much voltage and how long this accessory can take it. It seems poorly designed. 

 

Two ways to solve this problem.

 

The easiest way is to hook it to an interval timer circuit where it comes out for a set time,say 20 seconds and power is removed.  The solenoid then has time to cool and work at 6 volts. Since this is where a train will often stop,I will probably use this method and set the converter at about 8 volts.

 

Another way is to give it two voltages,an opening voltage and a holding voltage. There seems to be quite a differential.  This is often done in pinball machine flipper coil circuits and would not be hard to do. I may experiment with this so Wile E can stay out watch the passengers board the train. I will experiment and report the results.

 

I added a reverse diode for spike suppression and an LED for lighting. More later.

 

Dale H

"Another way is to give it two voltages,an opening voltage and a holding voltage. There seems to be quite a differential.  This is often done in pinball machine flipper coil circuits and would not be hard to do. I may experiment with this so Wile E can stay out watch the passengers board the train. I will experiment and report the results"

 

You know I was thinking about hot flippers before I was half through reading right.

OK, I did some bench testing with the Gateman accessory. You can try this on yours at your own risk. You have to be careful with DC in a solenoid,there is much less resistance and voltage needs to be reduced to a minimum to avoid overheating.  Hooked to the buck converter,it pulls out reliably at 8.2 VDC and stays out until voltage is reduced to 2.2 VDC. I left it on a the 2 volt setting for an hour with seemingly no ill effects while Mr Coyote stayed out. So ideally when the train enters the block the accessory will get 8.2 volts for a few seconds,then voltage is reduced to 2 volts to keep it activated without overheating. To do this I will use 2 relays, 2 capacitors and some diodes. Here is a schematic hooked to a ZW. When a train enters the block,the train wheels complete the circuit and relay one coil is energized.The left set of contacts on relay one discharges a 2200uf 35 volt capacitor into relay 2 coil,energizing it for about 2 seconds. Initially both relays come on, then relay 2 drops out. The other contact sets are configured so that the accessory gets 8.2 volts DC from the buck converter,then it is reduced to 2.2 volts until the train leaves the block. Voltage drop is provided by 9 diodes in series. Relay 2 bypasses the diode string. Click on photo to enlarge

 

 

 

So I made up the board. I have other accessories also to activate. 2 highway flashers,a Lionel scale crossing gate, and a warning bell. To accomplish this I made up a 4PDT relay out of 2 DPDT ones,(2, 12VDC coils wired in series.)

 

Here is a shot of the block and the other accessories that need to be activated when a train crosses the block.

 

 

 

So in addition to the Gateman circuit,other items are added. The first 2 relay contact sets are for the gateman as well as the relay to the right of it. The middle blue item is an interval timer which shuts off the warning bell after a set time. Otherwise it would be annoying. To the right of that is the buck converter to supply power to the gateman. and the diode dropping string,mounted on a barrier strip for adjustable taps. I used 3 amp ones but one amp ones would be sufficient. To the right of that is a flasher timer,set at about 2 seconds to flash the highway signal bulbs. The American Flyer ones have been altered to flash. A forth set of contacts on the block relay will switch the scale crossing gate.  I bench tested the board and will install later.

 

 

 

 

As I move along the layout,I will make up additional boards required for the accessories.

 

 

 

That is my progress so far,I need to do a bit of wiring as I have a few accessories,then I need to do the block system and random automated station stop circuits.

 

Dale H

Dale... all I can say is how GREAT this is !   The learning process transferred to readers such as I cannot be overstated.  Your pictures and explaining of all is more beneficial than trying to read and understand many books on the subject. Perhaps being in an old former school house has other rewards often taken for granted.  Your layout is super and words may far short of conveying so.  Yes, the amount of space you have for constructing a layout has many of us drooling and dreaming like boys in the 50s with a new Lionel catalog.  Many well deserved kudos out to you, sir..........

 

Jesse

Jesse

 

Many thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated. I will post from time to time of the layout progress. I am still wiring the flashers.

 

Dale H

Awesome Dale.  Thanks for posting the pictures!  Do you recall where you purchased the copper grounding bus in photo two ["Ground Bus 1"], and did you use a similar

device for your accessory bus?

Dale, I notice you're using Snap Track. Do you snap it together or use pins? If you use pins, do you use them on every joint? What are the snap connections actually like conductivity wise?

Dave

 

Pins and soldered jumper wires between sections and each joint.The straights are soldered underneath and made into long sections. Each long section has a feeder from the header.   Zero continuity problems that way,little voltage drop. . I do not rely on track pins.  I can set the throttle at creep speed and the loco will go around without stalling. 

 

Dale H