ERR CCM compatibility w/ R2LC C07 Lionel 6-18252

First to your question on ERR CC-M compatibility with the R2LC C07... I would plan on having to buy a C08 board.  It didn't work out of the box for me either.  The polarity isn't that big of a problem, you can just switch the wires to fix that.  However, the problem with the older C07 boards seems to be the serial data.  This may not be the case with *newer* boards from Lionel with C07 code loaded on them, but I honestly don't know all the differences, it's just a hunch.  I tried to use GRJs serial data buffer (the updated one) and build as designed, this didn't work either.  I had to change the ground latching resistor to something >470 kΩ for it to work.  This led me to believe that the serial data driver in the older R2LC C07 boards was just too wimpy to drive both the CC-M and the RS board.  Or it could have been a peculiarity of the older RS board demanding too much signal - no idea.  I got a C08 board and just moved on.

On the 32 absolute speed steps...  In my experience, yes the CC-M will work with the absolute steps.  On my layout I get much more consistent results using that mode when running a lash-up.  I don't have Legacy Command Base, just the original TrainMaster Command Base and I notice a lot of missed throttle signals when running older TMCC locos.  It still happens with absolute speed step mode, but at least a second flick of the throttle issues a direct command to both locos and gets them synced again.  I use the MTH DCS WiFi app to control mine and that's how I access absolute 32 step mode.  The only downside there is that the iPhone/iPad version of the app has a bug that when you get down to "0" on the speed steps, it will not resend the "0th" speed step more than once.  So if you come down to a stop, sometimes one loco will be still stuck on speed step 1 and there will be some bucking.  A quick flip of the throttle up to 1 and back to 0 usually fixes it.  I have not experienced this issue with the Android app.  I notified MTH a few months back and they said they added it to a list of fixes for the next release of the iOS app.

I've read that folks don't have these problems with lash-ups and missed speed commands when using the Legacy remote, as I'm told it has a much stronger 455kHz command signal.  Be that as it may, since there is no bidirectional communication with TMCC/Legacy there's no way to know for sure that an engine received it's command, so to me, absolute 32 step mode is the safest bet.  An absolute 100 mode would be a welcome addition.

Buy the R2LC-C08, I've had it go both ways with the C07 version.  The Legacy command base outputs around 5V P-P for the TMCC track signal, the older TMCC BASE1 outputs around 3.0-3.5V P-P for the TMCC track signal.  Clearly, the Legacy base provides better track signal, especially for larger layouts.

In truth, in all the years I've used TMCC/Legacy, the fact that it's a one-way system hasn't ever been a factor, it's actually very reliable as far as communications go as a rule.  Many people mistake the delay build into the command interpretation as "lost" command.  Given that TMCC/Legacy sends multiple commands to insure reception, there is also a delay of around a second before an engine will recognize a different command as they want to insure they don't repeat commands.  Just try to reverse twice quickly and you'll see that it ignores the second one unless you give it a short delay.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

In truth, in all the years I've used TMCC/Legacy, the fact that it's a one-way system hasn't ever been a factor, it's actually very reliable as far as communications go as a rule.  Many people mistake the delay build into the command interpretation as "lost" command.  Given that TMCC/Legacy sends multiple commands to insure reception, there is also a delay of around a second before an engine will recognize a different command as they want to insure they don't repeat commands.  Just try to reverse twice quickly and you'll see that it ignores the second one unless you give it a short delay.

While I can understand a delay looking like a lost command, the specific case I was speaking to was running multiple units in a consist.  In relative mode, I would have one engine go up a speed step and one remain at the previous speed step.  In testing, I was careful to watch that the red light blinked only once for each small movement of the big red knob.  The engine that received the command and the one that didn't was random.  This is across two different sets of matched units.  Another pair I have that are Legacy equipped seem to pick up the signal much better (probably due to the more advanced signal processing available these days or maybe a better frontend on the receiver) and don't suffer this problem often if at all. 

Steve,

I ultimately had to purchase a C08 for my ERR upgrade. The C07 wasn’t playing nicely.

Tom

Thank you all for you’re input- I really appreciate it! The advice has been in depth and thorough- wouldn’t expect anything less!

I have just one more question: So when I purchase the CCM kit(because my engine has a modular board configuaration) I’ll buy the CCM and the R4LC? The R4LC, If I recall correctly, essentially stands in for the R2LC 08

Speed control is what I want most from command locos followed by MU(lash-up) ability.  As I just picked up a Lionel Conrail SD80MAC w/ TMCC & odyssey as well as a Legacy F40PH- adding the Dash9 to the mix would be awesome as would controlling it with Legacy!

Steve,

I had to purchase a new R2(4)LC only because I had an older  R2LC-07 board, and the CCM needed needed something newer…-08 and up.

If I’m not mistaken, the R2LC-08 will work.  

Tom

@StevefromPA posted:

I have just one more question: So when I purchase the CCM kit(because my engine has a modular board configuaration) I’ll buy the CCM and the R4LC?

Yes, CCM Kit + R4LC from ERR.  The Cruise Commander Kit comes with the R4LC, but the CCM Kit does not.

The R4LC, If I recall correctly, essentially stands in for the R2LC 08

Roughly speaking yes.  The R4LC is an updated version that is flashed with software that makes it behave like the older R2LC C08.

Speed control is what I want most from command locos followed by MU(lash-up) ability.  As I just picked up a Lionel Conrail SD80MAC w/ TMCC & odyssey as well as a Legacy F40PH- adding the Dash9 to the mix would be awesome as would controlling it with Legacy!

Creating a lash-up with a TMCC/Odyssey, Legacy, and ERR loco may or may not work that well.  The CC-M has the ability to adjust the speed of the loco using the "nudge" feature but I've not had much luck using it.

Thanks a bunch @FlyPlanes-PlayTrains and @rplst8 for further clarification regarding the R2LC board- once again I really appreciate it.

@rplst8 regarding lash ups and TMCC or Legacy- until recently I only once had luck with two non odyssey/Cruise diesels. Maybe I just had beginners luck the othed night, but I was able to MU my Legacy F40PH(in TMCC mode) to a SD80mac with TMCC and w/ Odyssey 1.