ERR Dummy Locomotive Module Lighting

GRJ - What would i need to do to accomplish a dual headlight and two classificationLED's that change color depending on direction. The dummy unit currently has 2 bi polar LED's from evans design (going to swap them out and roll my own) and a single head light which is not bright enough through the plastic headlight. These 3 LED's work flawlessly.

The power unit board however doesn't. the classification LED's don't light and the dual head light LED's do. (common anode / cathode issue) would a booster circuit be needed for the power unit as well?

The units are Williams LV Budd cars with dual motors. 

I don't know exactly what is driving those lights, so it's hard to make specific recommendations.  Are you running conventional with the stock Williams reverse unit?  How did you get the lights in the dummy to be directional?

Forgot the most important part! They have been upgraded to ERR boards. The dummy features the ERR Dummy board and sound while the powered unit features the ERR Dual motor board. 

Well, yes!  That was the most important part!  For ERR boards, I use a standard LED, diode, and a 470 ohm resistor for a single LED.  If I have two headlights, I put them in series and use a 330 ohm resistor and diode, or in parallel with a 220 ohm resistor and diode.  Remember that the frame is positive when driving LED's from the TMCC R2(4)LC.  Here's a wiring diagram from my BEEP upgrade where I directional markers and headlights.  I also had  lighted number boards, separately controlled strobe, and separately controlled cab lights.  This is a bit "fancier" than you might be considering, but it shows how the markers were wired.  One point, ignore the load resistors, they were the "old" way of doing the triac loads, I've since moved to using the capacitors on plain TMCC or the ERR Cruise Commander Lite.  The other ERR products have the load capacitors and don't need any additional components.

Have you come up with a solution to put smoke units in dummys

I've put them in a couple.  Probably the cheapest method is a tether from the main locomotive and a relay to switch track power so you don't overload the R2LC triac.  You can also just use a little steam motherboard and an R2LC in the dummy, that allows you to dispense with the tether.  For a dummy A-unit, that also gives you directional lights and couplers.  If it floats your boat, you can add sound to the dummy unit too.

So basically, the outputs from the ERR boards apply ground when triggered? So if i did 4 LED's in series (2 headlights and 2 green marker lights) use a diode (1N4003), 330ohm resistor? or is there more math to be done for a different resistor value?

Actually, the outputs from the ERR boards (really the R4LC) supply a half-wave negative going signal when the lights are on in command mode.  However, in conventional mode, they output a full-wave AC signal, which I why I normally include a diode in the lighting circuit.

If you put all four in series, you'd need about 10 volts effective power to light them.  In that case, I'd probably use a 150 ohm resistor.

Thanks for the help!

So basically from the headlight output of the board i go to a 1k resistor to a transistor (2n2222a) one leg to ground , other to a 150ohm resistor then the 4 LED's right to the wire coming from the pick up roller?

Chris, from the ERR products that have an R4LC as the TMCC receiver, you don't need any transistors, just a diode and resistor for LED lighting.  The transistor solution I believe you reference is for the Mini-Commander 2 or the the dummy locomotive board with LED light outputs, they can't drive more than one LED.  The transistor was just to allow me to drive multiple LED's.

John,       I was going to email Ken this morning, but you may have the answer I need.  On the ERR DC Commander, what is the rated output on connection #7, the "feature" screw post allocated for smoke/lights/etc. ?  Wish to know before I change out to a ten pin tether in my K Line scale Hudson.  Thinking of using this as I change out the mechanical smoke unit for an MTH removed from a PS1 engine.  Also need the additional tether pins due to I have located the ERR supplied reed switch/magnet to a main driver for the RS ERR board, located in the tender.  One more question, have you ever used the entire die-cast tender as antenna for the TMCC signal?  I did with the ERR conversion of my MTH PS1 Big Boy, and works great.  My question is.... what is a good source for the nylon screws to reattach the tender shell to frame?  I had four I used on the BB tender, but now Ken tells me they do not supply them, and I have no recall of where the ones used came from.

Thanks for all the input you supply for all of us.

Jesse       TCA  12-68275 

The DC Commander uses the standard R4LC smoke output, so it has a 4A triac.  Note that it's only 4A with proper heatsinking, but it'll handle a standard Lionel smoke unit with no problem.  I figure that around 5.-.6 amps maximum through that triac with no heatsink.  I've powered the PS/1 smoke unit with the R4LC without issue, you should be good.

Of course, you know that I just have to put in a plug for my Chuff-Generator as opposed to the old Magnet, right?

I have used the entire tender on a couple of brass locomotives that had the trucks isolated.  I isolated the drawbar (one I made of fiberglass stock) and the coupler mount and just connected to the tender.

I buy my nylon screws from Micro Fasterners, they have them in both metric and SAE sizes.  I just stocked up on a number of sizes, the small ones for brass, the metric ones for Lionel tenders, and the SAE ones for MTH tenders.

John,      Thanks for the input.  I have the original smoke unit in the 1998 MTH BB ( changed over to ERR TMCC in 2013) and it smokes fine in conventional, and great in Command when I keep voltage 11-14 volts on the ZWC, with 180 bricks.  Of course, that is the stock MTH hot power supply from track.  Along with the PS1 smoke unit I am putting in the K Line Hudson, wanted info on the ERR TMCC for both engines and powering the smoke unit, both are same PS1.  Sure, could purchase and install Lionel, etc..... but like to use what I have "on hand" first..... call it a learning curve endeavor(s).  

  Yes, have all information and downloaded instructions on the Super Chuffer, and Chuff Generator.  Again, wish to try "learning" endeavor first on chuff generation.  The previous ERR chuffs are with magnet install on tender truck, want to try with mount in engine and on driver for chuff sync.  I do wish to use your products in future, have been building some of your boards at present.  And like the chuff related Super and Generator, just trying the "old school" methods first... learning curve.

  The MTH BB tender shell is isolated from the frame via tape around frame perimeter and mounted with nylon screws.  This works very well, have done same with Williams FEF and brass tender.  Have been searching for nylon screws for a little while, but cannot locate the necessary #6-24 I need for the K Line Hudson.  Thanks for the link, Digikey, B&F Fasteners, and others, etc.  just do not have what I am seeking.

Again, sir, many thanks......

Jesse   TCA   12-68275

Alright, 

Getting ready to install the LED's on the new Err board and here is the schematic I have drawn. Just a few things need to be clarified on my end and ill be set to go and hopefully wont make magic smoke on this board.

Note: Pins are label to the corresponding pin out of the ERR cruise commander board

Should both grounds go to frame or should I split them like I have in the schematic?

Also the resistor value for both? ( The front lights will have 2 warm white, and 2 green marker lights. The rear (reverse) indication will only have 2 marker red lights)

Thanks!

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but none of those LED's will light in that configuration.  How about describing exactly where those LED's are and what types.  When do you want the markers to light.  Also, you talk about six LED's, but you have eight in the diagram, I'm assuming you want the headlights as the other two.  Do you want the markers always on or only on directionally?

Always leaving out key info my bad! This sketch was a quick one in Diptrace. (Still trying to find right components and such) basically the markers will stay on and change (aspect) when the direction button is pressed. 

The LED's are common anode bi polar 3 lead, and want them green with the front head light (3mm warm white x2)  lit And the red when the "reverse" light is suppose to be on. 

D5 & D6 are diodes, most likely thrown in the wrong spot, again just threw this together, I probably should have not jumped the gun and took my time drawing it but just need this project off my desk. 

Chris 

Haste makes waste.

Well in that case. You have a valid point. But the only waste here was a couple kb of hard drive space.

The Porto type on the bread board functions how I'd like it too. And that took me about a few hours to get right. I'll see if I can present a better schematic in a bit. 

Alright GRJ,

I dissected your beep schematic and have redrawn it to what I need.  

Do any of the following resistor values need to be adjusted? 

I don't see how D4 and D5 are going to light, you have them wired backwards as far as polarity is concerned.  They need to be common anode LED's with the common anode toward the frame ground.  Try this...

Thanks, so no load resistor required just (2) .01uf caps? 

Still searching the diptrace library for Common Anode LED config. guess ill just roll my own part for that. 

Yep, the capacitors are a better choice for forcing the triacs to trigger.  They do the same as the load resistors, but don't dissipate any power.

RG Common Anode 3mm, 10 for 99 cents from eBay: 361402985529  You can also have 100 for $4.99

If you're in a hurry, 20 for around $5 from a US seller, eBay: 162150695094

For DipTrace, search for component: APBA3010SURKCGKC-GX  This is a common anode surface mount device.  Then in the pattern editor, find LED(BI)-8R and combine that with the common anode component.  That creates your common anode LED. 

I have a personal library that I make parts in, it's getting to be quite sizeable.

Thanks GRJ, I'm slowly working on the personable library parts. I toyed around with diptrace after doing a small proto-type board just for the diode and caps and wanted to make it simpler for when i do the next set of Budd car upgrades. (Have to be careful club members are seeing the results and wanting me to do upgrades for them ) I created this board and think it fits the KISS statement.

Frame GRD is at the right end of the board. Pins 2&3 go to the ERR board and to both wires noted as black in your diagram above. Pin 1 is set with the 1k resistor for the connection to the pair of R/G LED's. Pin 4 is set with the 220ohm resistor for the F.HL or B.HL which ever unit it is.

-Chris

The board picture is nice, but what does the schematic look like?

Something like this

I confess to being somewhat confused here.  What do all those connectors go to?  With series capacitors, nothing is going to light on J1 and J3 if those are for LED's.

I've taken your schematic and annotated it to where the corresponding "J" connectors connect to. This board is intended to ease the instal and keep things neat.

OK, you had me confused with what the board does.

Understandable, plus how can you beat $3.50 shipped for 3 boards!? no mess with cutting the prototype board up and cost less!

Yep, that's why I use them.  As long as waiting for a couple of weeks isn't an issue, it's pretty hard to beat.

Waiting a few weeks is a fair trade off, considering you'd have to wait just as long for the decently priced proto board from china!

I noticed on my proto type that there is flicker when it passes over a section of dirty track or what not, would a cap resolve this issue? 

There will be flicker, that requires a bit more work if you want to totally eliminate that from the headlights. 

In order not to put an excessive capacitive load on the lighting outputs, you'd need to split the dropping resistor for the LED's.  100 ohms from the TMCC headlight output, a 100uf 35V cap (watch polarity), and the remaining resistance after the cap.  Also, since you will boost the voltage with the cap, you need to add some resistance to compensate, calculate to assume you have 15 volts powering the lights for the resistors.

I've only done this once, a lot of extra components, but it's certainly not difficult to do.

Gunrunnerjohn,

Can that circuit, with the red/green diode marker lights be used with ps-2 & ps-3 or will a totally new circuit design be required.

Thanks, Len

Totally different circuit for PS/2.  Even different between PS/2 and PS/3, PS/3 uses LED outputs and PS/2 6V incandescent bulbs.  It's possible, I just haven't had the need to create one.