Expertise Wanted on Breakers for TIU, as well as location (INPUT vs OUTPUT)

First off, I am a believer in the PSX-AC and I use them myself on the input power to each TIU channel I have in use. I also use PH-180s for power to the TIU channels. TIU is powered thru the Aux port with Z500 from an MTH set. The PH-180s have very fast breakers themselves so my PSX-ACs might be a little overkill with those, but they are a lot cheaper than replacing the electronics in an engine, so the more protection the better, IMO. Also many recommend adding TVS diodes to the track feeds, or just around the tracks for added protection. Some folks put them in their engines when they have them opened up for other service. More info on that is available here on the forum and you might get more here.

I am not familiar with the ZW-L, but I think it has very good breakers as well. Again, IMO, a PSX-AC on each output you are using for trains couldn't hurt and neither would some extra TVS. 

Just a suggestion or FYI here, I have both DCS and Legacy. I had DCS first so I have my track power from the PH-180s going to the PSX-ACs, then to the TIU inputs. The TIU outputs go to MTH terminal blocks which then go to all the track blocks on the layout. When I added Legacy I just connected the Legacy signal wire to the black commons on the TIU outputs and it's been working great ever since. I am not an expert by any means, but this has been working great here, without a problem, for over 2 years now. If all you are doing is operating MTH DCS and Lionel Legacy TMCC engines with their respective control systems, I think this might also work for you and would possibly be a simpler setup. I control Legacy (I don't have any TMCC) engines with the Legacy 990 and DCS engines with the DCS system, no problems. I don't have the two connected at the 990 base and TIU, other than the Legacy signal wire that is.

The short across a fixed channel of the TIU is most likely the TVS diode.  They are pretty easy to swap out, they're fairly large thru-hole components.

Just My opinion ... I think the breaker needs to go between the power supply and input side of the tiu. (same as you)

Think of the power as a big hammer waiting to get at the tiu. It has to get through the breaker on the input side  before it can do any damage. If on the output side of the TIU the  power is going through the tiu before it gets to the breaker.

Also I believe the PSX-AC causes problems with the DCS signal if placed after the TIU. I believe someone here has used the PSX-ACs that way and had to add a rather large choke. I think it was Cappilot and GRJ helped him get the proper choke. Maybe he will see this and reply? I believe it was all working after adding the choke.?.?.? Or maybe GRJ remembers this?

With the PSX-AC between the power and TIU it trips so fast you won't know what happened, one reason I added the alarm and LEDs to mine. After a while you recognize the sound and know what to look for. Of course the PH-180s are rather fast on their own as well.

Yep, a 22uh choke if you're running in passive mode with the TIU.  If you're running in active mode with power going through the TIU, I recommend the PSX-AC be placed between the transformer and the TIU.

I believe when we discussed this, they were running in passive mode to allow more than 10 amps on the track, that's why the choke had to be added as well.

Dear John

Can you provide a link for these PSX-AC Beaker please. I searched Mouser and Digikey and I could not find it.

nvocc5 posted:

Dear John

Can you provide a link for these PSX-AC Beaker please. I searched Mouser and Digikey and I could not find it.

 

 

http://www.dccspecialties.com/products/psx_ac.htm

There is a link on the page for a list of dealers. 

PSX-AC Is the way to go.  Mine are between the transformer and the TIU.  I did a review of these many years ago but here's a video

Kris,

Charles Ro has the PSX-ACs as does Tony's Train Exchange. I think Ro has only the PSX-AC, Tony's has add on parts like the Sonalert alarm and screw terminals. Digi-Key also has the Sonalert alarm. 

The list George S linked above has grown considerably too, lots of dealers there! 

All, thanks very much for the input, it is very helpful.  Gary, thanks for the video, it helps a lot.  Was also curious if anyone has tried the Dallee breakers, or have some analysis on these as well.  Although, the PSX-AC look like the way to go.

Thank you George S and rtr12 for sending me down the correct path, got lost in the electronic woods.

Thanks all again.  I decided to order the PSX-AC from Tony's Train Exchange.

Good plan. I think you will be very pleased with them. I'm not one of the experts around here, just follow along mostly. However, I took a look at the Dallee breakers and they look to me like a regular old thermal breaker with a TVS added. The PSX-AC is electronic and will provide much better protection, IMO. I have been quite happy with them for a while now and no electronic failures yet. If you don't add any of the other extras, I highly recommend adding the manual reset switch.

Kris, You are welcome, very easy to get lost in those electronic woods. Happens to me regularly, maybe more like daily!

rtr12 posted:

Good plan. I think you will be very pleased with them. I'm not one of the experts around here, just follow along mostly. However, I took a look at the Dallee breakers and they look to me like a regular old thermal breaker with a TVS added. The PSX-AC is electronic and will provide much better protection, IMO. I have been quite happy with them for a while now and no electronic failures yet. If you don't add any of the other extras, I highly recommend adding the manual reset switch.

 

Kris, You are welcome, very easy to get lost in those electronic woods. Happens to me regularly, maybe more like daily!

I haven't used Dallee either, but looked at them. What concerns me is that they state "polarity doesn't matter". That can cause an out of phase condition.

George

Yes, phasing could cause problems. Maybe Dallee figures you will be using only one at a time? I didn't read the features/instructions so I missed that one on phase.

The link you posted of PSX-AC dealers has sure grown since I got mine though. They are mostly DCC (DCC Specialties), but sure have a lot more dealers than 3-4 years ago. Must be gaining in popularity at least the smaller scales. Seems like Tony's Train Exchange was about the only place I could find them when I got mine.

I too purchased mine from Tony's about 9 years ago when they first hit the market. If I recall correctly I paid around $28.00 each for them. Hands down the best breaker in the aftermarket and well worth the investment.

rtr12 posted:

Yes, phasing could cause problems. Maybe Dallee figures you will be using only one at a time? I didn't read the features/instructions so I missed that one on phase.

The link you posted of PSX-AC dealers has sure grown since I got mine though. They are mostly DCC (DCC Specialties), but sure have a lot more dealers than 3-4 years ago. Must be gaining in popularity at least the smaller scales. Seems like Tony's Train Exchange was about the only place I could find them when I got mine.

I really like the idea of the PSX-AC breaker. At $28 it is reasonable, not at $54 list. They would be fantastic with ZW 250/275s set for full voltage.  That said, I run exclusively PH 180's and don't see the point.

George

Seems like I got them for around $45, but I think they have gone up. Yes, the $54 is a little high, but a LOT less than replacing the electronics in even one engine. I also have the PH-180s and PSX-ACs and the PH-180s don't trip, just the PSX-ACs do. To be completely fair here, there is no 10 amp setting on the PSX-AC. I have them set at 8 Amps which might give them a jump on trip time. Would have to look, but I think the next PSX-AC setting is a little over 12 Amps. Maybe I will try that someday and see who wins the trip test.

If I knew then what I know now about the PH-180s, I may have done things differently? OTOH, I like all this electronic gadgetry so I may have gotten the PSX-ACs anyway? They are pretty neat devices. I am pretty sure I would have gotten them at the $28 price, probably would have taken me little more time to convince myself at $54 though.