F3 Warbonnnet Noses

Bill,

You will also note that the window size is different on the prototype.  The model has narrower openings - more squinty-eyed.

But, to me, it is the real one that looks odd, not the Lionel version.

My love of the original Lionel version goes way beyond a few non-prototypical details.

Jim

No doubt in my mind, the O-gauge Warbonnett F3 is the iconic toy train.

I think one could create a fairly large collection of Lionel Warbonnett F3s that are different from one another: nose stripe, shield, number plates, ladders and details - I think that as long as they got the red, silver, and yellow-black pinstripes correct, they could sell them!

My first Lionels were 2353 Warbonnets with the all-red nose. However, even when little, I knew that the Warbonnets I saw at Dearborn Station and its approaches all had the yellow nose stripe under the windshields. I looked in vain for the all-red nose. I couldn't find them in the books, magazines and historical society publications. When I got to examine a Warbonnet up close (at the CA museum) it also had the yellow stripe above the headlight.

All this taught me a valuable lesson. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what it was.

You are correct in that the nose paint is not correct on the iconic, classic Lionel F3.  This had more to do with cost and paint masking technology at the time.  Also, the warbonnet is not curved correctly.

Any modern reproduction, in order to be faithful to the postwar version, must therefore also not have the stripe on the top of the nose and misshapen warbonnet.

The nose paint treatment on the postwar era Illinois Central (and of course, the IC never rostered F3's) and Southern F3's are likewise "incomplete."

But, things like that mattered less in the 1950's than they do today.

Rusty

The SF unit is closer to reality than the 2245 TX SP unit.

The SF must have liked it, for they helped pay for the thing!

Frank's beautiful photo above has become one of my personal 'all-time favrite' model RR shots!

Jim, I've felt as you that the prototype F3s always looked strange to me (especially the numerous HO models with the large windshields and 'narrow' pilots.) Only recently has the look of the scale models swayed me from that opinion. Consequently, the only remaining non-scale F3s we have are some repainted 2343s and a set of Williams SOU 2356s. 

Will agree however that the Lionel Santa Fe is THE iconic toy train diesel!

Paint masking and decal placement weren't up to the challenge or replicating the prototype's markings 60+ years ago. Truth be told, I like Lionel's version better.

I reckon the Lionel units far outweigh the prototypes in terms of numbers and longevity, so which is more real? 

My 2175W set with the 2343 F3 units was a lucky bargain find for me on Craiglist 3 years ago. It launched me into a quest for more Postwar Lionel trains, after a lifetime of HO. So the Lionel AT&SF F3's are very special to me. They have exceptional pulling capacity, rivaling my MTH BigBoy.

Lionel took a lot of liberties with how they painted F3's of all railroads, not just Santa Fe.

Most of them had some or all of the colors of the prototype, but the design of striping and curved patterns were designed for Lionel's ease of application.  They were making toy trains, not scale models.

I received a 2353 Santa Fe F3 for Christmas in 1953, and, even at age 7, could see that the paint did not look like a real Santa Fe rednose.  But it did resemble it and I used my imagination.  At least mine had porthole glass and silver trucks.  I loved that train and it was an important factor in my seeking employment at Santa Fe as an adult.

I like PW Lionel trains, as is. That's the way they were. If I had to nit-pick it would be too many Lionel Lines tenders instead of real RRs.

Ditto!  These are 3-rail trains; I don't sweat the small stuff (or even the big stuff if it's something that appeals to me).

It's great, though, that those who seek prototypical accuracy have a number of models to choose from--more in recent years than was ever believed possible in the past.