Standard gauge track eating the wheels off my Ives.

Ugh.....what radius track are you running?.......Pat

The lower rear wheel in the picture looks like it has been subject to many derailments and shorts.  Looks a little like burn/weld marks from the wheel being electrically shorted.

Not sure it's Fastrack doing that.

ogaugenut posted:

The lower rear wheel in the picture looks like it has been subject to many derailments and shorts.  Looks a little like burn/weld marks from the wheel being electrically shorted.

Thats what I was eluding to....looks like a bunch of jumped rails, and good old fashioned arc welding going on......Pat

This engine was new 4 years ago and only runs at Christmas. Engine has never derailed. I’m thinking the wheels are being eaten because of how poorly fastrack pieces align. 

Running on O-42.

I run surge protection so there is no sparking that I can see.

My other sons 400E is on its second Christmas and does not have these marks.

Is this a newer MTH 1134?

I’ve learned not to run my Repro Ives, Flyer and Dorfan 1134’s on 42” curves. 

Steve

The truck shown does look like its pitted, but it seems unlikely that a pilot truck should be sparking unless it’s the only place making the ground connection. And the back of the wheels look like they have been arcing as well, and the only place this could happen would be a switch or a crossing. Does your layout have any improperly wired turnouts? Also, are the drivers and other wheels pitted like the ones in the photo?

Bill in FtL

Remove all lights from the train any passenger cars and loco lamps. Adjust the speed so that the train can make it around the track without changing the throttle setting and turn off the room lights, make it as dark as you can. Now follow the loco around the layout and find where the arching is occurring. Do you have non derailing switches ? Some times when wheels hit the trigger rails an arc occurs.    j

By the way.  Pot metal wheels tend to suffer more than steel wheels from this problem.    j

I've run tons of stuff on Fastrack, including various tinplate locomotives with similar wheels.  This looks like you're going through a switch and the wheels are contacting the hot center rail.  By examining the track, you should be able to fairly easily find where it's arcing.  If this is just a loop and there are no switches involved, I can't imagine how the inside of the flanges are touching anything that could arc!

I’ll have to run it in the dark and see if I can see anything. 

This is just a loop around the tree. No switches. The Christmas tree loop is the only route the engine has ever ran on. 

This is the repro Ives. The wheels look almost like a galvanized steel, there the 400e wheels are shiny. It runs great, no problems other than when I took the engine out this year I noticed how sharp the wheels were on the front truck.

Tomorrow I will post some more pictures so maybe we can figure this out.

This engine is meant to be a heirloom possession so I really want this engine to last.

i appreciate the replys.

We probably shouldn’t call it Fastrack if it is Standard gauge. That would be MTH made Lionel STD gauge track. It’s more like RealTrax. I don’t like how the rails don’t have pins. The plastic roadbed doesn’t always snap together well, leaving small gaps between rails. The continuity is pretty good, because of the copper wipers under the roadbed. I got rid of my STD 42 curves and went to STD 72. I use some old tubular 42” curves though.

George

George S posted:

We probably shouldn’t call it Fastrack if it is Standard gauge. That would be MTH made Lionel STD gauge track. It’s more like RealTrax. I don’t like how the rails don’t have pins. The plastic roadbed doesn’t always snap together well, leaving small gaps between rails. The continuity is pretty good, because of the copper wipers under the roadbed. I got rid of my STD 42 curves and went to STD 72. I use some old tubular 42” curves though.

George

Can you snap a pic of your track so we can see what brand it is?

George S posted:

We probably shouldn’t call it Fastrack if it is Standard gauge. That would be MTH made Lionel STD gauge track. It’s more like RealTrax. I don’t like how the rails don’t have pins. The plastic roadbed doesn’t always snap together well, leaving small gaps between rails. The continuity is pretty good, because of the copper wipers under the roadbed. I got rid of my STD 42 curves and went to STD 72. I use some old tubular 42” curves though.

George

Thank you, George. 

MTH RealTrax STD gauge 7" straight

Here is a track picture and how poorly it lines up. You are right George I thought it was Lionel, I’ll change my post title.

you can see how poorly one track lines up with the next. Looking at the wheels I am not sure this is causing the problem though. I also looked at all the coaches I have been running and all those wheels are fine as well. 

I would not buy this track again.

Zett posted:

Here is a track picture and how poorly it lines up. You are right George I thought it was Lionel, I’ll change my post title.

 

you can see how poorly one track lines up with the next. Looking at the wheels I am not sure this is causing the problem though. I also looked at all the coaches I have been running and all those wheels are fine as well. 

I would not buy this track again.

The outside top rail looks like it is being damaged as well. I wonder if there is some arching at those junctions. Remember, the engine is much heavier and will stress the joints more than a car. The gaps at the joints have always concerned me. That particular section fits better than some I have. I agree USA track or even MTH tubular would have been a better option for both of us. Only thing is that plastic will do less damage to that nice wood floor you have.

George

Zett posted:

Here is a track picture and how poorly it lines up. You are right George I thought it was Lionel, I’ll change my post title.

 

you can see how poorly one track lines up with the next. Looking at the wheels I am not sure this is causing the problem though. I also looked at all the coaches I have been running and all those wheels are fine as well. 

I would not buy this track again.

Do I see a little blackening around the end of the rail against the joint ?   I would wonder if the motor on this loco is drawing a good bit more current than your other loco which does not have the arc marks. Do they run at the same or similar speed on similar throttle settings ?  Do you have a meter to read AC current ?  If you take the pilot truck off and look at all the contact points between truck and loco frame can you see any other signs of arcs ? Those pit marks on the inside of the wheel look like someone drove the loco half way around your tree with the pilot off the rails.  Are the kids driving the trains when you are away ? The lead wheel on the pilot may be bouncing across that joint loosing contact and an arc occurring as the wheel breaks contact. That doesn't account for the arc marks on the inside of the flange.  At some point I would be tempted to add some pins to those rail joints.     Don't we all love a good mystery.     j

I've been running my Dorfan on realtrax and have no issues with it.

I still don't understand where this is coming from, nothing would be touching the inside of the wheels.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I still don't understand where this is coming from, nothing would be touching the inside of the wheels.

My guess is a derailment. I have that on the leading trucks of one of my O Gauge engines that derailed.

George

That is the way die cast wheels look after running with a wheel off the track.  They pit much worse than steel wheels.  Pilot error !        Guessing the kids are running the trains when dads away. However, should it prove to be Mom, blame it on the track !                      j

How about just using track pins to keep the rails aligned?

I don't see how any track alignment would be eating the inside flanges, I think either it's from derailments or something else is in the mix we don't know about.

I can't figure it out. If its from the front pilot jumping the rail I can't figure out how it would cause that damage. Its not like we would run it around the track like that.

Thanks for the replys, Ill advise if I figure it out.

If not shorting in switches or at activation tracks (some "red eye magnets don't have good backside clearance for some narrower gauged wheel sets on O) ...If not,.... I'd say it is track connection quality and lack of pins: The loco has a weaker common connection when on track A, wheels hit track B causing the new , better path of B to take over, better but the electric path is weak at the wheel hub/flange crimp, power heats and arcs there before traveling across the hub to the inner connection to the axle (inner hub having a better connetction than outer hub....who knows why on that*.)

On top of that, clipping those misaligned rails causes wheel hop, further degrading any constant connection, further increasing the chance of sparks, etc. each time too. Not to mention physical damage will accumulate.

If it just plain seems to not be hitting its wheel backside into shorts, just add pins of some kind (brass music wire or rod ), add drops, and see if the assembled, hollow, wheels  might take a dot of solder along the flange/inner hub crimp to sure up its connection (maybe the wheel metal has a backside protective coating keeping the crimp from making good contact. *Flash at the outer hub from creating the hole might be a cause for a poorer connection there too..?) (plating may need to ground off for a solder dot)

The wheels look like they have some crud lumps started too. ThatTdoesnt help. Clean up time too? How about track?

(this composer is having fits. I corrected more times than I have words typed. I HATE SPELL-WRECK...if I don't post back, that's why fyi. )

Adriatic posted:

The wheels look like they have some crud lumps started too. ThatTdoesnt help. Clean up time too? How about track?

(this composer is having fits. I corrected more times than I have words typed. I HATE SPELL-WRECK...if I don't post back, that's why fyi. )

On an IOS device (Apple) you can turn off auto-correct under Settings-General-Keyboard. Should be able to do it on Android too.

George

Oh, it's already turned off. It changes nothing.  I'm tired of companies passing blame to even complain... they won... I just give up.... for months at a time actually. (like most of last year)

 Did the same on my last 5 devices and two laptops, only far worse on Android.   I suspect posting to be down and glitches as being a large part of that (look at the number and type of mistakes prevalent today and you'll see most are likely software failure vs operator error).

   Apple just tried to sell Mom a new computer last week "the old is no longer supported or usable online" "they tried". My visiting nephew got curious and had it working again in 15min. Something they did do to "help her" last time changed one of her passwords. He just had to expose and change them again to save her $4000 for a while. Apple support couldn't walk her through it ???, easier to transfer her to the store?  Hot Apple "i" every 3 years seems flakey. Stale maybe, but should'nt go bad that fast  

Zett posted:

Here is a track picture and how poorly it lines up. You are right George I thought it was Lionel, I’ll change my post title.

 

you can see how poorly one track lines up with the next. Looking at the wheels I am not sure this is causing the problem though. I also looked at all the coaches I have been running and all those wheels are fine as well. 

I would not buy this track again.

I have found that when assembling RealTrax that one can get tighter joints locked by holding the pieces in a V, with the top edges on the inside of the V and fold down and press together simultaneously.

This eliminates the gaps that you have. The last few sections in a loop are a pain, so I just try to lift slightly and start the locking from a flatter angle rather than a lateral pushing together.

Also, try putting a power lock-on on both sides of the loop so that both outside rails have common.