Fastrack power block frustration

Check the connections from the power supply to the track.  It sounds like one might be reversed.  This would cause a direct short.

Check the serial numbers of the PH-180 bricks. one of them might be wired incorrectly from the factory. Here is the bulletin from Lionel:

"Installation of Lionel Phase Adapter 72-2983-251(3/01): The phase adapter plug(s) will convert the output of your 180W PowerHouse to be in phase with other Lionel PowerHouse and conventional transformers. To use this plug, locate your 180W PowerHouses that require the phase adapter. These can be easily identified by turning over your 180W PowerHouses and looking for the date code heat-stamped into the plastic bottom of the case at the corded end. A date code number of 2000 48 or lower will require a phase adapter plug. This plug is not necessary for any other power supply."

The two that are being used right now are 2000 49.

Wiring appears to be right.  I am going to try two other powerhouses and see what happens. 

Ben 

Just switched out the two older ones for two from 2009.  Same problem. 

Did you remember to pull the center wire on the insulated track pieces?

How are the connected to the track? Are you using the adapter plug with the connection terminals?

It's also a good idea to plug the transformers into the same powerstrip to make sure they are "phased"

On a side note, how "large" is the loop of track?

I have 1 brick powering over 150' of track with 7 switches and 2 sets of operating crossings.

Nice big spark as soon as it hits the insulated track 

Wires are pulled.  I actually had the loop running on one powerhouse just fine, but I am trying to add to it so want to add some zones.   It just seems like such a simple thing.  

Which insulated section are you using? Are the bricks plugged in to the same outlet? Are the sparks occurring right at the one center rail gap(of both insulated sections)?

Just a reminder, if there are 2 center track pickups on your passenger car, the car itself might be causing the short. Put some electrical tape on one of the two center pickups and see if that stops the short.

It sure walks and talks like crossed wires.

Well, I had them plugged into two different outlets, but placed them closer together on the same outlet and now it works.  So thank you.  I am electrically ignorant so was unaware that could happen.

I am sure I will be back with more questions. After this was fixed I was having my engine stall on one specific area. I did a search and saw RickO's recommendation to pinch the center rails where they connect with pliers and now that looks better too.

As I patch in the rest of the layout I am sure I will create more problems, but now I know how to very simply avoid this one. 

A big problem that I will address once I get these electrical basics dealt with is that my Legacy Y6b is totally dead.  But I have to focus my frustration so that will have to be dealt with later.  I don't even want to think about it... 

Thanks guys,

Ben 

Is this a permanent layout Ben?  If so, take your time, do it right.

You should probably run to the local hardware store and grab a voltmeter rather than testing your layout with a passenger car and potentially damaging it.

I grabbed one like this for under $20

This video by Mike Reagan demonstrates a better method ( than my use of pliers) of making sure the track pins are making contact:

Don't skimp on the wiring. I run 14 ga buss and feeders on my FT layout, feeders are soldered directly to those power supply tabs underneath the fastrack about every 10'.

Don't forget you can add " blocks " to your layout with toggle switches rather than a seperate transformer for each location. This allows you to shut off power to any "parked/unused" locos.

Thanks Rick.  It will be a pretty permanent layout as I finally have a decent sized space with a table, but I like to kind of futz with the layout, so while "permanent" it will always be changing.  I will order a voltmeter.  Thanks for the video!  Very helpful.

Ben 

banelson posted:

Well, I had them plugged into two different outlets, but placed them closer together on the same outlet and now it works.  So thank you.  I am electrically ignorant so was unaware that could happen.

The outlets were most likely on opposite legs of the main panel which caused the transformers to be out of phase. The two pick-up car bridged both transformer circuits. You were getting one heck of surge. Try to use layout supply circuits that are on the same side of the main panel.

The smooth wire coming out of the PH180 is hot and is the center pin in the connector, point is empty, Ribbed wire is common or neutral.

Ben 

Be careful the bent the tabs back can fail. I ended up snapping one clear off (still works I just shove it in the next piece of track and then put the the pieces together like normal). The pinching method is much better.

Moonman posted:

banelson posted:

Well, I had them plugged into two different outlets, but placed them closer together on the same outlet and now it works.  So thank you.  I am electrically ignorant so was unaware that could happen.

The outlets were most likely on opposite legs of the main panel which caused the transformers to be out of phase. The two pick-up car bridged both transformer circuits. You were getting one heck of surge. Try to use layout supply circuits that are on the same side of the main panel.

The smooth wire coming out of the PH180 is hot and is the center pin in the connector, point is empty, Ribbed wire is common or neutral.

Ben 

 

For those not very familiar with circuit breaker panels (that was definitely me at his level of detail for a while as well), it's important to note that same "side" (or leg) doesn't mean left or right in the panel, it actually means every other standard 120 breaker down the left or right is in phase.  Also, any 2 breakers in the same vertical position will be in phase.  I found a well explained summary (with some nice pics to show it) here.

-Dave

banelson posted:

Thanks Rick.  It will be a pretty permanent layout as I finally have a decent sized space with a table, but I like to kind of futz with the layout, so while "permanent" it will always be changing.  I will order a voltmeter.  Thanks for the video!  Very helpful.

Ben 

Ben,

get a set of mixed color jumpers with alligator clips. Then, you'll be all set to test and diagnose track and train stuff. Clip of probe and clip on test subject.

Don't get thrown if the meter reads 15.5 - 16.5 volts for the PH180's. They reliably output close to 18 volts AC . It requires a meter which has True RMS for AC. They are more costly than you need for playing with trains. An old thread had a chart for the typical variances. I'll try to find it for you.  

The test that you will want to do for track is a voltage test with lighted car as a load on the track. Working you way around, pushing the car(s) ahead, you'll find bad joints(voltage drops) if any, that way. They can give good voltage readings with no load.

You'll also be able check between the blocks to confirm that there is no large voltage difference and that they are phased.

Dave45681 posted:

Moonman posted:

banelson posted:

Well, I had them plugged into two different outlets, but placed them closer together on the same outlet and now it works.  So thank you.  I am electrically ignorant so was unaware that could happen.

The outlets were most likely on opposite legs of the main panel which caused the transformers to be out of phase. The two pick-up car bridged both transformer circuits. You were getting one heck of surge. Try to use layout supply circuits that are on the same side of the main panel.

The smooth wire coming out of the PH180 is hot and is the center pin in the connector, point is empty, Ribbed wire is common or neutral.

Ben 

 

For those not very familiar with circuit breaker panels (that was definitely me at his level of detail for a while as well), it's important to note that same "side" (or leg) doesn't mean left or right in the panel, it actually means every other standard 120 breaker down the left or right is the same phase.  Also, any 2 breakers in the same vertical position will have the same phase.  I found a well explained summary (with some nice pics to show it) here.

-Dave

Thanks, Dave, very helpful! I will be more specific and keep it to hot (leg), rather than imply physical position of a breaker.

Ok, I found it. Non-RMS vs. RMS Voltage Meter readings

This is good reading and definitely worthy of a mental note!

Thanks guys.   This has been very helpful.  I will get a voltmeter, thanks Rick.

Ben