Found some of the Flyer F9s! How rare are they?

They are not rare and available lots of places.  Look them up in the recent Greenburg's Guide for value based on condition.    Often there is a gear that wears out which means they don't run and that should be checked. Also they crack and break where the chassis hold on the the shell reducing value.  Have fun.

There have been several on ebay in that last month.  

Brendan

I don't know about rarity or value, but they are the poster locomotives for how not to design a model of an F-Unit. 

I once thought maybe a decent paint job would make them somewhat presentable.  I saw a pair where someone tried.

Nope.

Still ugly spuds...

Rusty

Any similarity between these units and an actual F9 is purely coincidental. Not a very good effort on Gilbert's part.

Jim M

I was a very sad twelve year old boy when these ugly things appeared on the cover of the catalog. American Flyer finally made something to compete with the selective compression of Lionel O-27.  What a sad day for sure.

RoyBoy posted:

I was a very sad twelve year old boy when these ugly things appeared on the cover of the catalog. American Flyer finally made something to compete with the selective compression of Lionel O-27.  What a sad day for sure.

Lionel was (and still is) a master of selective compression. 

The Gilbert F9's were the furthest thing from it. 

Rusty

I had the B Rte F9 at one time, but primarily to get some experience with it and overhaul it from tracks-to-stacks like I did with at least one of every type of S-gauge Gilbert engine made (steamer, diesel, electric, handcar, etc.) before offering repair services to others over thirteen years ago.  When I was finished it went like lightning, but I eventually sold it.  Frankly, they are far from what ACG AF S-gauge trains should be remembered for.   

Guys, these were TOY TRAINS for kids.  They weren't made for guys our age or to be true replicas. I think for a toy they do pretty well for the price parents paid for them back then. I have every model F9 Gilbert made and they run well and non collectors enjoy watching them go.  Yes, they were made cheaply to sell for less, but that is what the big box stores of the period wanted.  

Cheap Japanese tin wind-ups and battery F's had better proportions.

The F9's were nothing but a come down for Gilbert.  Even with all the cheapening, it could've been done a little better.  The F9 looks like it was designed on the back of a napkin by a committee.

Even the Casey Jones 4-4-0 looked more like what it was supposed to be.

Rusty

I too, remember first seeing that catalog as a kid, and thinking both locomotives on the cover didn't look like American Flyer locos, and then there was that pikemaster track--no longer any T rail for Flyer, just cheap U shaped rails, and sharper curves. And the catalog cover, and the insides were no longer in "full color." End times, indeed!

Thank you for the information so far on these!  I know they aren't scale replicas, but I don't operate my Lionel, Flyer, HO, etc. for a scale and exacting replica.  I run them for enjoyment and fun.

These are colorful, easy to work on and I like them.  To me, that's all that matters.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Guys, these were TOY TRAINS for kids.  They weren't made for guys our age or to be true replicas. I think for a toy they do pretty well for the price parents paid for them back then. I have every model F9 Gilbert made and they run well and non collectors enjoy watching them go.  Yes, they were made cheaply to sell for less, but that is what the big box stores of the period wanted.  

However, I vividly recall seeing that catalog and those F-9s as a 12 year old "kid" and feeling truly betrayed. Kids are not stupid and can usually tell a substantial toy from a piece of junk. A good friend who received these for Christmas that year had broken trains by the end of Christmas week. AF collectors often call the F-9s "Fat Alberts" and not with affection. Run well? Sorry, not compared to almost any Atlantic. The F-9 was/is a miserable comedown from a 303 or 283. 

Sorry, but this hit a (still) raw nerve. 

Bob

Bob's right: AF's big sales feature was they were SCALE models (ok, the "scale" crowd still thinks they aren't) as opposed to "the other guys" heavily fore-shortened stuff, AND three rail track with round-topped rails. So when these came out, it was like a slap in the face to us "true believers" AND notice no more banners about being Scale Models and T rail track. Definitely a different crowd in the product development division there. I shared Bob's feeling also--still do!! I still wonder who decided the curve radius needed to be tighter.

TOY STORES AND MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES wanted CHEAP TOY TRAINS.  Gilbert was no longer owned by a Gilbert so cheap trains were produced by the company along with cheap trains by Lionel and Marx.  Trains were a dying toy.  Slot cars were in.

I still like my Fat Boys as we call them in our club.

 

And we can all see how well that worked out.

Doesn't change my opinion that the F9's are still ugly spuds...

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

TOY STORES AND MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES wanted CHEAP TOY TRAINS.  Gilbert was no longer owned by a Gilbert so cheap trains were produced by the company along with cheap trains by Lionel and Marx.  Trains were a dying toy.  Slot cars were in.

I still like my Fat Boys as we call them in our club.

 

Whatever the rationale, they were CHEAP toy trains.  From here on as a teenager, my brother and I went to train stores and purchased second hand or new-old stock quality Flyer from the 1940s or 50s.

BTW, when the F-9s came out in 1961, Gilbert (the company) was still predominantly under Gilbert ownership. A. C. passed on January 24, 1961 but A. C. Jr. was president and had been (somewhat reluctantly) since 1954. A controlling interest by the Wrather Corporation came about in December of 1961.

Bob

That's interesting, as it indicates that sometime in 1960, the decision was made to manufacture these products--considering the planning, development and mold creating process. So what change in the product design group occurred that caused this change in direction and standards? Key personnel retired/forced out? Wrather being allowed control as the potential soon-owner?? Anyone have "insider's info" on this?