GGD Empire State express cars?

Joe, This was an attempt by 3rd Rail to duplicate stainless steel which has various amounts of nickel in it. Thats how they were made, no cleaning will help. Problem is only their ESE Hudson matches these cars.

Pete

Engineer-Joe posted:

 I got a set of 5 of the cars. They seem to have a heavy amber tint to them. I went searching to see if that was intended?

 

Are these cars older than the 21st Century Limited or newer in real life?

Just curious,,,,,,,,,what is "the 21st Century Limited"?

HW, again I did it.

Pete, thank you. I can live with it. I hated to ask but it seemed just a little heavy.

Joe:

I have not personally seen these cars, but if they have the same issue as the GGD 1938 Super Chief then you have the set as manufactured.

If I remember, Scott relied on the “experts” to come up with the color/tint and the result was not correct.

Not sure if there is anything you can do to correct the problem.

If you do find something, please let the forum know, as I know there two sets of users that would like to get rid of the amber/yellow tint.

Otherwise the cars are very nice.

Good Luck

Charlie

A possible solution might be to spray over the original finish with one of the Alclad II metalizer variants.  The final finish color is dependent on a combination of the finish and substrate colors, so maybe there is a combination you could achieve that would have less yellow in it.  Obviously this would require some effort to disassemble cars for spraying.  I guess it depends on your level of determination.

Jim

BTW Joe the streamline 20th Century Cars (TT Gray) debut was 1938. The streamline ESE with these cars debut in 1941.

Pete

Norton posted:

BTW Joe the streamline 20th Century Cars (TT Gray) debut was 1938. The streamline ESE with these cars debut in 1941.

Pete

That seems so close together to me at a glance. The 2 train's engines do have the same overall streamline look. I could research the later years to see what cars survived and were used together.

My trains maybe a modern mix of what if they all survived! Accuracy will be out the window. I try to model modern and get sucked into the romance era! 

They seem well built and roll better than my others. The lights don't flicker fast, but they do blink across things like track blocks. They will probably get LEDs and a upgrade someday. I'm tired of tinkering right now. So I'll just run them.

 Almost all the windows were out of the observation car so a refinish wouldn't have been that tuff if I had thought of it.

I am going to try the Alclad finishes some day.  Is the GGD finish anodized?  Is it possible to re- anodize in a more conventional silver?

I personally prefer bare aluminum, but that takes polish, and cleanup is a giant pain, even using the flour trick.  I do have a few GGD anodized cars, and they fit in well with the polished Mac Shops cars, and almost ok with the K-Line California Zephyr car, which is apparently chrome plated.

big train posted:

A possible solution might be to spray over the original finish with one of the Alclad II metalizer variants.  The final finish color is dependent on a combination of the finish and substrate colors, so maybe there is a combination you could achieve that would have less yellow in it.  Obviously this would require some effort to disassemble cars for spraying.  I guess it depends on your level of determination.

Jim

http://alclad2.com/finishes/re...lc-102-duraluminium/

I never heard of this stuff????

http://alclad2.com/finishes/regular/

https://ogrforum.com/t...th-alclad2-metalizer

Engineer-Joe posted

I never heard of this stuff????

Lol....lot's of people in model railroading have never heard of the stuff.  It's big in military modeling.  They aren't the only company making this type of product.  You can find info and tutorials on youtube plus comparison videos for the various products.

Antoniofp45 also used to post about this on the old Atlas forum.  You could search for his posts there as well but I think he covers things pretty thoroughly in the OGR thread you linked to.

Jim

Big Train:

I forgot about Antonio and yes, Alclad II makes very nice metal (paint). I don't think its actually paint, but rather a metalized coating. Regardless, the product is first rate.

It really is made for airbrushing, and will yield the best results, but can be brushed with limited success.

If anything has a chance to correct these cars by using a paint, Alclad would be my first choice.

Charlie

Engineer-Joe posted:

Norton posted:

BTW Joe the streamline 20th Century Cars (TT Gray) debut was 1938. The streamline ESE with these cars debut in 1941.

Pete

That seems so close together to me at a glance. The 2 train's engines do have the same overall streamline look. I could research the later years to see what cars survived and were used together.

My trains maybe a modern mix of what if they all survived! Accuracy will be out the window. I try to model modern and get sucked into the romance era! 

 

Joe, 5 or 6 of the cars are at the Museum in Rush, NY. They run them for scenic rides but are shadows of their former selves. When NYC closed shop the cars were sold to a commuter RR and converted from luxury coaches to spartan school bus interiors.

Pete

It would be great if those real cars got totally refurbished to show what those glory days were like on that train.

You can't see in my pics but 2 of the cars are darker with one of those the darkest shade of the amber tint. It probably would look better if my other equipment was weathered. I think I will leave them for now to look like a 40's train still on the rails. Maybe I could blacken the tops slightly for soot It's funny what bugs me and what I overlook.

I tried Alclad on a pair of Weaver E8s. Did not like the way it sprayed and how much "paint" it took. Cleaned it all off and sprayed them Scaleoat II alum paint.

Dick

Alclad II would be the way to go, but there are a few variables that greatly affect the final outcome. Base color being the biggest. The guys that know how to use it get spectacular results. I've never had the time or patience to try it. I just bust out the aluminum paint and airbrush away.

The ESE was the first passenger train set done by GGD and the only cars nickel plated.  The plating was such a problem that all passenger cars since have been painted.

What  type of light bulbs are you using?  Using standard incandescence or equivalent fluorescent/LED bulbs will give you a yellow tint.  Take the cars outside on a sunny day and see if the tint is as severe or still there.

If it is lessened then you need to change you layout room's lighting.

Jan

Jan, Its not the light. The cars have a yellow tinge. Here is a pic of a GGD ESE car next to a K-Line ESE car. 

The K-Line car on the left is the Alonzo B Cornell RPO car which still exists today.

Pete

Thanks Pete.

Jan, if you believe it's the light at all, do you see the pic of mine above where the Atlas cars are silver and the GGDs are amber?

They aren't so shiny to change color like that. At first, I thought it might be from cigarette smoke. They don't smell at all so that was easy to rule out.

The GGD car to the right, did you notice how far foward and misaligned the truck is?

Eccentric Crank posted:

The GGD car to the right, did you notice how far foward and misaligned the truck is?

The trucks aren't perfect but most of what you see is called Parallax error. The camera is not centered on the truck.

Pete

I have been trying to match a nickel silver A with a silicon bronze B.  I came close with Testors "Metal Master" and Scalecoatclear, which can be polished with auto polishing compound.  My next attempt will be Alclad.  I will probably coat the A unit as well to get a perfect match.  I only wish nickel plating was as easy as it used to be - plating is very expensive now.

Can we get a straight on shot then?

I have the same cars and see the same yellowish tint.  In lieu of having the 3rd Rail Hudson,  did the ESE ever get pulled by anything else?  i.e.  S2 electric (would be convenient considering the '17 catalog)  E8's, Niagra, Mohawk?

After about 1947 it was pretty much E8's. Given there were only two ESE engines I suspect other steam engines got substituted when they were down for service. 

Pete

BHalfway posted:

I have the same cars and see the same yellowish tint.  In lieu of having the 3rd Rail Hudson,  did the ESE ever get pulled by anything else?

Yes. As the ESE increased in size, i.e. number of cars, the Niagara class or an L4b Mohawk class (the L4b locomotives had larger diameter drivers and were roller bearing equipped, with two of the L4b locomotives having roller bearing rods for higher speed passenger assignments) handled the the train, until the E7 and subsequent E8 diesels were delivered.

 i.e.  S2 electric (would be convenient considering the '17 catalog)  E8's, Niagra, Mohawk?

Norton posted:

Jan, Its not the light. The cars have a yellow tinge. Here is a pic of a GGD ESE car next to a K-Line ESE car. 

The K-Line car on the left is the Alonzo B Cornell RPO car which still exists today.

Pete

I kinda like the 'tarnished' look of these cars Joe....

They look good Sam. The problem they don't match anyone else's cars or engines. I think Lionel with their 21" cars actually pretty much nailed the cars, the coaches anyway. Some have pointed out the observation is not accurate.  Looking at the pics of the cars when they were new they were not polished. Also when new the cars had the full width diaphragms which AFIK only Lionel has done, other than maybe some high end brass cars.

Pete

Hot Water posted:

BHalfway posted:

I have the same cars and see the same yellowish tint.  In lieu of having the 3rd Rail Hudson,  did the ESE ever get pulled by anything else?

Yes. As the ESE increased in size, i.e. number of cars, the Niagara class or an L4b Mohawk class (the L4b locomotives had larger diameter drivers and were roller bearing equipped, with two of the L4b locomotives having roller bearing rods for higher speed passenger assignments) handled the the train, until the E7 and subsequent E8 diesels were delivered.

 i.e.  S2 electric (would be convenient considering the '17 catalog)  E8's, Niagra, Mohawk?

 

Hey! I got something correct. My Niagara was on the main after the grandsons left. So I put the cars with her.