Gorre & Daphetid Layout Article in December/January issue of OGR

Ken, I sure do remember seeing lots of John Allen material in print when I was growing up.  His may be one reason I started out in HO instead of Lionel O gauge.  The book Linn Westcott wrote on John a few years after his passing is one I have read more than once.  Your layout plan certainly does John's original G&D good justice.  I'll be looking forward to reading the article!!

I too have read the Wescott book about the G&D more than once.  A few years ago, I loaned my original one to a guy, and (surprise!!) he never returned it and I have since moved away.  So in September, I bought another copy, used of course, in pretty good shape.

I have incorporated a few of John Allen's ideas in my layout, including the use of mirrors to fool the eye into "seeing" more depth in a scene than is really there.  He was a genius, and really turned the "train set" into the model railroading hobby we have today.     

Mike, you did a great job with those mirrors!  John Allen taught you well! 

I agree with you on the impact he had on the hobby!

When I first heard of this railroad, back in the 1970s, I could not figure out how to pronounce the name or why John chose this weird name. It was not until many years later that a fellow model railroader clued me in to John's wicked sense of humor.

Who would have thought it was pronounced "Gory and Defeated?" 

Ken, I am looking forward to it!!!!

John Allen changed my course in model railroading to pursue the more realistic hirail concept.

Jan

Looking forward to the complete article Ken. Loved that you took the time to show this in O scale. Great work as always. I now have to find John's book along with finding out why he chose the name.

The Linn Westcott book was first printed in the early '80s.  I had my copy by at least 1984.  It was there where I learned why he picked the name.  I had been reading Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman since about 1968, but I also mispronounced it in my mind until reading an article in Model Railroader a while after John's passing in 1973 .  That is where I learned it was pronounced as Rich mentioned above.

I might add that John Allen was the Frank Ellison of my formative years.

Ken, will be looking forward to your article. Your track plan is amazing and great version of the famous G&D.

Tom

Can't wait to see this article in OGR! I recall reading about the Gorre & Daphetid in MR when I began with O gauge trains in the 1950s. I used to think it was pronounced "Gorry and Daf-a-tid" (emphasis on first syllable) until seeing it "translated" only a few years ago. This surely brings back memories of my model railroading as a youngster.

MELGAR

I really enjoy the O Gauge interpretation.

Great job!

Rich Melvin posted:

When I first heard of this railroad, back in the 1970s, I could not figure out how to pronounce the name  ...snip...

I had always pronounced it  "GORE and DAFFY TED".

I've never outgrown my need for some 'John' in my modeling.  Here's the famous John Allen Timesaver, this time done in 7 1/2 inch gauge outdoors!  Russ

thanks to Ken for updating this classic and I am looking forward to the article too. 

 Joe is looking but Unless I missed  it, no one has explained the origin of the name...Civil war?

Very cool John Allen and George Sellios are my mentors!! 😊

I hope this layout if followed up with the "expanded" track plan or "the Rest of the Story".... Paul Harvey... Good Day!

Russ, The  7 1/2 inch gauge Timesaver is tremendous!!!

Looking forward to it!

Peter

Does anyone know of any 3 rail G&D rolling stock on the market?

ChiloquinRuss posted:

I've never outgrown my need for some 'John' in my modeling.  Here's the famous John Allen Timesaver, this time done in 7 1/2 inch gauge outdoors!  Russ

Wow, can you imagine having this in your backyard?! Sitting up there in a bedroom window (the yard tower), contemplating all the moves (popcorn for the family room, flour for the kitchen...) - pretty cool!

Jon Stachowicz posted:

Does anyone know of any 3 rail G&D rolling stock on the market?

Sure... and I’ll sell you the G&D bridge too if you are interested.

Probably the strangest model railroad in history. Left this world ten days after its builder. Linn Westcott died while writing "Model Railroading with John Allen". Spooky. I look forward to the issue.

Allin, You are right about the layout being destroyed by fire right after John Allen's passing and that Linn Westcott hadn't finished the book before he died.  Two of those things where the truth is stranger than fiction.

John Allen was also my inspiration for pursuing model trains. I grew up in Santa Cruz, CA and was fortunate to visit John Allen's G&D in the early 1970s, shortly before he passed away. I'll always be grateful to my dad, who had little interest in trains, for cold-calling John to see if our family could visit the layout. John invited us over to his home in Monterey; he was a gracious host and spent several hours with us in his amazing basement. Periodic readings of Linn Westcott's book bring me right back to that visit.

Regarding O scale G&D rolling stock, the only one I've seen is a G&D boxcar offered some years ago by Intermountain. Occasionally one shows up on eBay in the $20-$40 range.

TWebSP posted:

J

Regarding O scale G&D rolling stock, the only one I've seen is a G&D boxcar offered some years ago by Intermountain. Occasionally one shows up on eBay in the $20-$40 range.

The Intermountain G&D boxcar kit was part of the NMRA's Historic Heralds (or something similar in name) series, available at the time only to NMRA members.  It was available in N, HO, S, O and G scales.

This is the S scale version, the O scale version was identical:

Rusty

I did a construction article on a 3-rail 0-6-0 patterned afte John's modified Roundhouse Harriman switcher.  OGR published it in the early 1990s.

TWebSP posted:

John Allen was also my inspiration for pursuing model trains. I grew up in Santa Cruz, CA and was fortunate to visit John Allen's G&D in the early 1970s, shortly before he passed away. I'll always be grateful to my dad, who had little interest in trains, for cold-calling John to see if our family could visit the layout. John invited us over to his home in Monterey; he was a gracious host and spent several hours with us in his amazing basement. Periodic readings of Linn Westcott's book bring me right back to that visit.

Regarding O scale G&D rolling stock, the only one I've seen is a G&D boxcar offered some years ago by Intermountain. Occasionally one shows up on eBay in the $20-$40 range.

What a great opportunity!  Your dad really did well calling John Allen to take the family!  Thank you for sharing!

John Allen articles, the Beebe and Clegg book, Mixed Train Daily, 1950's trips on Colorado narrow gauge, and the commonality of branchline rolling stock in 1950's HO models are the reasons l try to create that world in three rail.

The funniest thing I remember about John Allen was the fact that he removed some supporting structures to build the railroad and people were told not to walk in the center of the room above because he was afraid they would fall through.

Here is the track plan with labels:

I did not put labels on the hidden storage/staging tracks to avoid visual confusion.   Those are O72 FasTrack curves on both spurs, and I think you can figure out the straight sections at the ends of the spurs.

@Rich Melvin posted:

When I first heard of this railroad, back in the 1970s, I could not figure out how to pronounce the name or why John chose this weird name. It was not until many years later that a fellow model railroader clued me in to John's wicked sense of humor.

Who would have thought it was pronounced "Gory and Defeated?" 

And if you take out the "&" between the two letters, it becomes the first two letters of a curse I will not mention due to the family nature of this blog.

A 3D view from above:

And from the front:

Thanks for this - it looks great in O. That trackplan has always been in the back of my head - my abortive foray into N scale featured a 2' x 9' stretched version with no upper terminal. My stack of old magazines has a British article on the G&D from 1968 which, as a kid, had me trying to build an American-style locomotive from card! I also hand-drew a plan for S gauge American Flyer with a reverse loop from the upper terminal back to the main line. I shoud really try it in SCARM to see if it works. 

Having read John Allen later articles as a teenager, I think he would be pleased that so many of us still hold his work in such high regard.  Ken, The 3D view really shows the essence of his original layout long before I was even born.

To me John Allen was just another name in a magazine, but Frank Ellison's Delta Lines was much more of an inspiration to me.

@Firewood posted:

Thanks for this - it looks great in O. That trackplan has always been in the back of my head - my abortive foray into N scale featured a 2' x 9' stretched version with no upper terminal. My stack of old magazines has a British article on the G&D from 1968 which, as a kid, had me trying to build an American-style locomotive from card! I also hand-drew a plan for S gauge American Flyer with a reverse loop from the upper terminal back to the main line. I shoud really try it in SCARM to see if it works. 

Interesting idea for an "enhanced' G&D; an elevated reverse loop.  Which then suggests a reverse loop at the lower level, as part of the "twice around up-an-over" main loop.   I might try that. 

Suggestions for a track system?  Maybe Atlas-O.

@PRRMP54 posted:

To me John Allen was just another name in a magazine, but Frank Ellison's Delta Lines was much more of an inspiration to me.

Delta Lines is a wonderful layout, but it was massive. Few of us have that kind of space.

George

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Interesting idea for an "enhanced' G&D; an elevated reverse loop.  Which then suggests a reverse loop at the lower level, as part of the "twice around up-an-over" main loop.   I might try that. 

Suggestions for a track system?  Maybe Atlas-O.

So here is a concept to see if the idea will fit.  It will!  Lots more work need to clean-up, fine-tune, and improve.

After 1st round of tuning:

2nd round of finishing: