Grade to staging yard

Grades are a tricky issue. I have kept mine at 2 to 2 1/2% so that I can run just about anything on them. I have friends that have 4 to 5% grades and just run really short trains on them. Even with a 5% grade in 5 feet you could only go 3 inches. You need at least 6 inches for clearance. To get a 5% grade you would need 10 feet too achieve it.

Can you increase the run distance somehow?

Art 

If you have a 5 foot opening all around, build a helix.   

The type of grade in 5 feet to get a foot of separation would be more like a model airplane in a dive than a model train! 

That I do not have, I am pretty much stretched to the limits on what space I can take up.

I can extend the run to around 6 1/2 foot long but will most likely loose 2 tracks in my staging yard.  Not the end of the world, just not be able to store as much as I want.  

I forget exactly the configuration of your room/table but something to consider would be to figure out where in the room you could put a temporary 2x6 foot module on which you could build your staging yard.  Between operating sessions, remove the legs and store it under your layout.  You wouldn't have to use it all the time, either.  That is how I am planning on handling my staging for my own layout.

That's a 20 degree slope!!!

Could you put a yard on arms that would permit the yard to swing up level with the main track, yet swing down below the main layout?  you'd have to have aisle clearance for it to stick out and a way to lock it so it wouldn't fall down, but it would permit you to have a yard (wish I'd thought of this when I built my 3-track yard).

I thought of that also, but it would still require me to set up the trains and take them down between every operating session.  It is also not something I could leave up for a few days at a time since I have young children that play in the other part of the basement.  

I do have another option that I could go off the layout and go around the front side along the wall, but it would cut down on the aisle space between the wall and layout to just a foot and a half.   not much room there.  

You need to reduce the difference in elevation to may be 6" if possible and then increase the down ramp to more like 16 ft Closer to a 3 to 4% grade.

Reducing elevation difference would be limited by your construction technique and materials.  Thicker sheet materials, top level, would require less structural support material, which takes verticle space.

Increasing the run distance of the slope would involve using some of your storage space as part of the up/down ramp.

Here is a shot of my layout, don't mind the big mess.   My original plan was for the train to exit the layout at the back of the layout and go though the closet at the back right hand corner of the layout.  It would exit the closet on on the right hand side of the door to a 10inch shelf along the wall.  I then could have a 3 train staging yard on that wall.  It would cut down on my aisle space there.

I then though of my idea in the 1st post of this thread, by having the train exit the layout at the front left hand side of the layout, go down that grade and go under the layout at the front right hand side.  I could have a much bigger staging yard there.  

That is the drawback.  The setup/takedown time for the module really isn't much more complicated than setting up a card table and plugging in the electrical connections.  If you're like me, it is more about not having to take things out of boxes and put them away between sessions.  In my case, my "temporary" staging is really a convenient shelf for my trains.  What might help you is to find some kind of foam-lined trays or drawers that would make your stuff more accessible than the boxes but still keep them relatively safe.

I have also seen some good results where people have put a small hole in the wall for a track to a staging area.  A little bit of scenery can camouflage the hole and make it part of the scenery.  Any chance of negotiating something like that for a staging yard?

My advice is to keep it simple. My layout is a large U. Under each 'leg' I have a storage yard. I bring the trains from the table top down in increments. This allows the grade to be manageable as suggested above keeping it to 2.5%.  As the trains start down, they go to the end of the layout table, turn to the wall then continue down another 2.5% to the back of the table and then into the staging yard tracks. 

I actually made the ingress and egress double tracks - one in and one out. I have used a lot of turnouts to eliminate backing up the trains. I'm not good on picture posting, but the attached might explain what I am describing. The table top enters from the straight tracks on the right. The curve to the right is the table top continuation and begins the decent. Each of the remaining sections continue the decent at a modest incline. The remainder of the picture is the entry into the staging yard. There is a split on the right side - the ingress/egress I described. I added a 45^ crossover and the trains go into the staging tracks. As you should see there are only two dead-end sidings, all the others are drive thru.  This is a JPEG that was used to make a Control Panel overlay and is not to scale, so do not count track sections. I do not use Big Boys in this staging area so the radii isn't 72^ curves but I would think 42^ could work for you. Get some brown paper the size of your under table area and layout the track curves to see if it will fit the way you want it to fit.

As mentioned above you need clearances above and below the layout to do your wiring. The tabletop will need maintenance at some point so you need to be able to get to it.

Ralph

A train might be able to go down a 1 in 5 grade without derailing but I'm sure not even an engine could make it back up. The curves almost double the effective grade so that arrangement is not doable for your-sized layout. I would suggest creating a passing siding(s) in the rear hidden by a low removeable backdrop or building fronts to store a train or two. If you want more storage, then a helix (with the widest possible curves)  could be built which would drop the grade at a reasonable level to a staging yard a couple feet off the floor next to the wall. You would have to go underneath and restage trains for the uphill climb. If possible, I would put a reverse loop at the end if it didn't restrict siding length too much so you wouldn't have to restage.

Peter

I have a 7 inch climb from yard level to main line. I gave up figuring grade % and worried about linear feet of track. There are 6 072 tubular curve sections and the balance are straights. The grade is 15 linear feet from beginning to end. I would guess you need 20 linear feet or more since you are using 042 curves and modern scale equipment without magne-traction. You might need to get a head of steam up before your engine starts to climb.

What percent gradeidles the Lionel trestle set work out to be? Seems toit that it must bea close to 5.

At 1/2 inch per 10 inch section of track, that works out to 5%.  You can reduce the grade percentage by stretching out the distance between the trestles.  If you're using the "long" straights, you *can* do a trestle every 14-15 inches and reduce the grade to around 3-4 percent.  I use FasTrack, so that helps some.  I am in the process of eliminating my trestles and replacing them with risers and inclines.  That way I will have exactly the grade I want and the support for the track will be more even and stable.

Ok guys I think I will go with plan 2, a two track staging yard that the lead goes through the sump-pump closet.  I can also do with Eric S suggest and set up a temporary staging yard for operating sessions, but that will be down the road.  

The 2 track staging yard will have to wait till the fall though.  Gonna finish up wiring my power drops on the track, and possibly wire the switches into my AIU this summer but that will be all the work on the layout I will be able to do till fall.

Remember that if you have six inches of clearance you probably have to get below another six inches of support. So you are really dealing with a twelve inch drop. Though I have 5% grades and I pull fifteen car trains up and down them all the time I fear you will be running into a real eastate problem even at my steep inclines.

 Also, you are probably going to wont at lest 12 inches of clearance so you can have work access to the storage area. Now we a talking 18" drop and you really don't wont to go above a 3% grade unless as is my case you have no choice.

Let me predicate what I'm about to suggest with the fact that I never did this myself, but I got the idea from these pages and plan on trying it someday.

Build a long 3-1/2 wide siding along the longest part of your layout. It has to be long enough to accommodate your trains that are to be brought to the storage yard. Have that siding travel up and down like an elelvator. I think the author of the post said he got the idea from the Lionel Lift Bridge.

I know that there are many engineering issues that must be addressed and I'm talking with a paper daydream but think how cool it would be if one of us could get it to work.

I was just looking at the picture of your layout. Imagine a turnout at the outside turn of the foreground of the photo. Now picture the elevator I spoke of on your wall below your display shelves. This long shelf can travel up and down.

A removable bridge, that can be moved from the upper to lower positions can be used to provide access to your operating level and also to your storage level.

Hey, if we are going to daydream why not do it right and consider two storage levels.

At the same time with some isolation switchs you can have a handy test track and programing track.

Oh yea I forgot if your going to add to the total weight of your table by building this storage level you will have to beef up your leg support.