GSC California Zephyr Set Review - UPDATE

I did not get the GSC set but instead opted for the  full 12-car Western Pacific CZ.  I checked out all the cars shortly after delivery and only found two minor problems.  One being a detailed part broken off the under carriage, nobody would ever notice this unless they picked up all 12 cars to see which was broken.  The other problem appears to be a weak solder joint of pinched wire on the Dome/Obs car.

I have not seen any other negative posts on the second run of the Silver Lady.

I think to a large degree, we're seeing lots of "issues" with stuff coming out of China nowadays.  And in many ways, I liken what we're observing to the phrase, "The devil is always in the details."  The marketing folks do their job -- and then some -- to grab our attention and get us dreaming about how wonderful the products are gonna be.  But then there's always a bit of reality that rears its ugly head when products arrive for the unveiling by consumers.  Even my 3rd Rail / GGD El Capitan passenger cars were not free of issues.  Beautiful... yes.  But not perfect.  As we're seeing, nothing seldom is these days.  And perhaps they never were... with perfection only truly existing in our minds as a by-product of the marketing images designed to conjure up nothing but the absolute best products coming our way.

Despite the fact that I built my CZ train over the nearly 7+ years that Atlas-O spent delivering individual cars, I'll admit I was VERY tempted to purchase one of the GSC "sets" because of their "exclusivity".  And truth be told, I probably would  have were it not for a couple of other serious offerings that caught my eye around the same time that these CZ reservations were due.  Nowadays, it seems there are just too many expensive products being offered simultaneously, and we can't "have them all".  So I ultimately passed on these GSC and Limited Edition "exclusive sets".  And aside from some very minor color discrepancies with cars that were produced and delivered by different overseas factories during an almost 7-year time period, I'm VERY pleased with my CZ set that was built ala carte.

Hopefully, quality in general improves in coming years, because we're most definitely paying premium prices for products that should ultimately give us a sense of enjoyment.  And that sense of enjoyment should make us "feel good" that we parted with hard-earned dollars.  Failing that, it's not gonna be all that difficult to stop spending the money.  Really... it isn't.

David

I purchased the GSC and am very pleased with it. It is my first passenger car purchase from Atlas. Mine had one lose diaphragm which as far as I'm concerned isn't even an issue.

The set is beautiful and truly a work of art. I hate to say it because GGD products have always been my favorite but... I believe the Atlas GSC CZ is the finest detailed and best running O scale passenger set I own. Don't worry I will still be a loyal and diehard GGD fan I hope Atlas announces their next offering in the upcoming catalog! 

SantaFeJim posted:

I did not get the GSC set but instead opted for the  full 12-car Western Pacific CZ.  I checked out all the cars shortly after delivery and only found two minor problems.  One being a detailed part broken off the under carriage, nobody would ever notice this unless they picked up all 12 cars to see which was broken.  The other problem appears to be a weak solder joint of pinched wire on the Dome/Obs car.

I have not seen any other negative posts on the second run of the Silver Lady.

 

SantaFeJim,

I think you you take a look at the post right above yours in the Atlas CZ thread, you'll note one example  (by VISTADOMESCOTT) of a set with issues that required three cars t be returned - and Atlas paid for two-way shipping.  You even responded to that post.  See link below:

https://ogrforum.com/t...86#69989099768316586

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I think to a large degree, we're seeing lots of "issues" with stuff coming out of China nowadays.  And in many ways, I liken what we're observing to the phrase, "The devil is always in the details."  The marketing folks do their job -- and then some -- to grab our attention and get us dreaming about how wonderful the products are gonna be.  But then there's always a bit of reality that rears its ugly head when products arrive for the unveiling by consumers.  Even my 3rd Rail / GGD El Capitan passenger cars were not free of issues.  Beautiful... yes.  But not perfect.  As we're seeing, nothing seldom is these days.  And perhaps they never were... with perfection only truly existing in our minds as a by-product of the marketing images designed to conjure up nothing but the absolute best products coming our way.

Despite the fact that I built my CZ train over the nearly 7+ years that Atlas-O spent delivering individual cars, I'll admit I was VERY tempted to purchase one of the GSC "sets" because of their "exclusivity".  And truth be told, I probably would  have were it not for a couple of other serious offerings that caught my eye around the same time that these CZ reservations were due.  Nowadays, it seems there are just too many expensive products being offered simultaneously, and we can't "have them all".  So I ultimately passed on these GSC and Limited Edition "exclusive sets".  And aside from some very minor color discrepancies with cars that were produced and delivered by different overseas factories during an almost 7-year time period, I'm VERY pleased with my CZ set that was built ala carte.

Hopefully, quality in general improves in coming years, because we're most definitely paying premium prices for products that should ultimately give us a sense of enjoyment.  And that sense of enjoyment should make us "feel good" that we parted with hard-earned dollars.  Failing that, it's not gonna be all that difficult to stop spending the money.  Really... it isn't.

David

David,

I totally agree, and this is what makes this situation so surprising to me.  We're not talking about a shady used car dealer type seller here.   And, this is really about two separate things: (1) the quality of the product; and (2) the customer care.

In terms of Quality - I have no idea if it has to do with China or the desire to expedite this set for a Q4 2016 delivery.  What I do know is that, for whatever reason, the volume of defects, small and large, is not at all consistent with all my prior experience with Atlas.  

In terms of Customer Care - as you said, nothing is necessarily perfect.  But  having the right customer care in-place makes all the difference.  In the past, Atlas jumped on my need for their help to drive a great outcome.  Here, customer care has included some good aspects, but also making me feel like: (a) I am overreacting by wanting what I paid for and having manufacturing and functional defects addressed; and (b) I'm the cause of the issues.  And, an ultimatum - either pay for return shipping for repairs or return the set.  

So, this isn't about how poor their products are.  As I've said, they are generally top-notch.  It's about the surprising difference in how they are treating different customers that need customer care.  And, again, I'm not talking generally, as customer care has always been top-notch in my experience - till now.  But, per my post immediately above, VistaDomeScott received 1 set with 3 defective cars and Atlas gave great customer care.  In my case, I've received 2 defective sets and the one we would like to keep has 7 defective cars, and the customer care is underwhelming.  Not at all what I expected and not something I will care to ever repeat.  

One of the problems with BTO is the lack of additional product when each run comes in, Atlas simply does not have a replacement model for a damaged product. If they cannot repair it the dealer or direct buyer is out that model [hopefully with a refund] just saying!

I bought the original set that took seven years to acquire and the cars were excellent with the exception of the shades on the outside of the first run which Atlas sent replacements for and the colors on one run of cars was a little off but in real life they were never all clean at the end of a trip so it didn't bother me.

Mikey

mikey posted:

I bought the original set that took seven years to acquire and the cars were excellent with the exception of the shades on the outside of the first run which Atlas sent replacements for and the colors on one run of cars was a little off but in real life they were never all clean at the end of a trip so it didn't bother me.

Mikey

I did the same. And so did another colleague in our club. The shades on the outside of the cars are humorous, and tell a great story, so I let them be. I run on a min radius of O 100 and have had many a head aches of them uncoupling themselves with out  warning, one car had a short and burned the interior lighting out, another likes to indiscriminately leave detail parts on the rails, there are always derailments with these, and my track work I believe would make John Henry proud... just cannot figure out why they are so temperamental. If I had to guess I would say O 100 radii and less are just too sharp for them. Oh and "S"curves are an extreme headache... DO NOT turn your head away while running these on the layout you will be sorry.

These are beautifully detailed cars and a trip to another club members home. I was able to run his set care free on O 120 for hours ... no issues...

J Daddy posted:

mikey posted:

I bought the original set that took seven years to acquire and the cars were excellent with the exception of the shades on the outside of the first run which Atlas sent replacements for and the colors on one run of cars was a little off but in real life they were never all clean at the end of a trip so it didn't bother me.

Mikey

I did the same. And so did another colleague in our club. The shades on the outside of the cars are humorous, and tell a great story, so I let them be. I run on a min radius of O 100 and have had many a head aches of them uncoupling themselves with out  warning, one car had a short and burned the interior lighting out, another likes to indiscriminately leave detail parts on the rails, there are always derailments with these, and my track work I believe would make John Henry proud... just cannot figure out why they are so temperamental. If I had to guess I would say O 100 radii and less are just too sharp for them. Oh and "S"curves are an extreme headache... DO NOT turn your head away while running these on the layout you will be sorry.

These are beautifully detailed cars and a trip to another club members home. I was able to run his set care free on O 120 for hours ... no issues...

Its not just you. Some of these cars run without any issue, some of them, regardless of what I do, just simply will not stay on the track, or they'll pull the car next to them off. I've cut all the thumbtacks off, removed all the hoses and steam lines, meddled with the coupler lengths, etc and some of them just wont play ball. The ones that run are nice, the ones that dont basically just sit in the box. I've found that the older runs of cars are less tempermental, but thats just my experience. 

As far as running issues I have been lucky,my cars stay on the track and operate on 096 curves with 096 Ross Switches and Lionel and K Line tubular track.

Mikey

Some days I think the importers (all of them) and suppliers wish we were back in the 1980's and 1990's when lots of folks bought stuff and kept everything in storage until they built their dream layout.  Nowadays more folks are OPERATING their trains the day they buy them -- not just displaying them on shelves or stashing them away in storage.

Also there was no Internet back in the 19980's, and the 1990's brought about only the infancy of the Internet.  Today, we're connected like never before, so information -- both good and bad -- is instantaneous.  Decades ago we relied on a magazine for good product reviews that might be published several months after products hit the market.   Whereas today, members right here on the forum are capable of posting photos and reviews within a day or so of receiving their products.   It's an entirely different world now, and product highs and lows are shared with unprecedented speed.

David

UPDATE:

You may recall that 7 of 12 cars in the second GSC CZ set Atlas sent me (first set was much worse) were defective.  I tried working with the person with whom I had been emailing in relation to my purchase - this was the person who posted that initial very long thread last year to announce this offering - I'll call him "SalesGuy."  Well, after SalesGuy's antics and ridiculous insinuations that I was somehow responsible for the manufacturing defects, or worse, that I was somehow imitating manufacturing defects to the cars, I got fed up with him and got discouraged with dealing with Atlas, wondering if this was the direction in which Atlas' customer care was headed.  

Before writing off Atlas, however, I contacted Bill S. and Jesse H, as both have always been incredibly helpful, with the best "can do" attitude.  Plus, I couldn't believe a company that works so hard to bring such amazing products to market could have taken such a drastically negative turn under the same leadership!  Really glad I contacted Bill and Jesse.  As always, they were incredibly professional, proactive in helping and, ultimately, restored my faith in Atlas' commitment to customer care.  I now have the 7 cars back with the defects gone.  Beautiful cars.  With all the consternation and frustration out of the picture, I now really appreciate this marvel of a passenger car set.  Thank you Atlas, and a very special thanks to both Bill and Jesse.  Two true assets to the Atlas name and our hobby.

Peter 

That's good news that you got everything resolved. I must have never dealt with 'SalesGuy' because my few contacts with Atlas have been nothing but excellent. Almost sounded like you were dealing with a different company than I had dealt with. They've always bent over backwards to help me out. I believe I have talked to Bill before, one of those excellent experiences!! 

PJB posted:

I was probably one of the first to receive this set, but waited to post my review.  The reason - this experience has been quite different than what we’re used to with Atlas.  We’ve been buying Atlas products since entering the hobby 5 years ago.  Freight cars and all items needed for our 33 x 16 layout, and we’re about to start our second layout.  In that time, we’ve had just two issues and Atlas’ customer care was top-notch (thanks Bill S. and Jesse).  In this case, the CZ set we received, and then the replacement set, were defective and customer care is not what we’ve come to expect. I’m hopeful, however, that Atlas will still step up and do the right thing.      

 

The short version:

The GSC CZ set arrived nicely packaged and, for our first-ever Atlas passenger set, I really like the level of detail.  But 10 cars had manufacturing defects, including a melted window frame, nicks and small but deep cuts to the car shells, light scrapes to the shells, placards and a few inside window panes, two warped roofs, etc.  Kind of surprised, given every one of our Atlas freight cars is perfect.  But, no biggie - I emailed Atlas, they emailed return shipping tags and I returned the set.  

 

Two weeks later, the person handling this account emailed.  My take-aways from his message were: (a) if this level of defect is a problem, I have unrealistic expectations; and (b) some/all of the defects were due to my mishandling.  Due to this, Atlas would issue a refund.  I voiced disappointment, given I pre-ordered and waited months for this set as a Christmas present for my sons.  No response.  After posting just bit of this situation on this forum, an Atlas exec emailed to provide a different explanation for the refund: no other sets available.  Despite this, he did offer 2 CZ set options.  I really appreciated this proactive “can do” attitude!  So I chose a set and waited …

 

Replacement set arrived in time for Christmas, which was great. I quickly looked it over.  Tough to do before Christmas with 3 snooping children.  A few minor blemishes, a few diaphragms and minor parts falling off, and a few color flecks off the shells, but no big deal - and night-and-day with the first set.  But 6 cars ride too low, either on one or both ends.  Some are so low the coupler structures scrape the bottom of the diaphragms and do not allow free movement - also causing derailment.  In other cases, no scraping, but a very noticeable height difference between a “low rider” and the car to which it is coupled.  Cars that ride too low only on one side look sloped - like a hotrod car jacked up in the back.  On Christmas day, after my sons removed the Christmas wrapping paper, we checked out the cars more thoroughly and found that one of the cars shorts out the mainline.

 

I emailed the account guy (and the 5 people he’s added to distribution) to tell him this set looks like a keeper, but advised of the “low rider” issue.  As a novice, I thought the issue was truck-related and that their passenger cars have adjustable couplers.  So I offered to let Atlas walk me through fixing the “low rider” issue over the phone.  He replied.  Basically, my options are to either pay return shipping for cars needing repairs, or return the set.  Oh, and I’m apparently the cause of the manufacturing defects.  I think he’s right that handling fragile scale models can cause damage - but not manufacturing defects.   And, on further inspection, I think the issue is not at all truck-related but caused my improper installation of the base or floor.  On cars that have this defect only on one side, you can see that base is secured further up into the shell on the lower side.  

 

Given my amazement over this situation, I emailed only the exec, voicing my disappointment with being asked to pay return shipping for repairs, given these are manufacturing defects.  And, people have posted here and on other forums that Atlas is - rightfully - offering them two-way shipping to repair defective CZ cars.  I almost feel like someone decided that because this was a Christmas present, we’d be inclined to keep the set, and would therefore buckle and pay the return shipping to rectify defects if we want to keep the set.  Five days since I sent my email and no reply - possibly due to holidays.

 

As I said, this experience is different from my others with Atlas.  But this situation remains open and unresolved.  Ironically, all we want is resolution that gives us the CZ set we were expecting and paid for - one that measures up to what we’ve come to expect from Atlas - both in terms of product and customer care.  I’ll update this review as things develop, but for now, my rating on the cars, as they would be without defects, is an A.  But this overall experience rates a “D.” 

 

Peter

If you paid with a credit card, could you have stopped payment until all issues were fixed?