Happy Holidays from 3rd Rail - EMC Es Announced

Pete Kruimer posted:

Anyone that does not order an E1 needs to have their temperature taken.

What's an SD40?

Added the Option of Early or Late Scheme Santa Fe E1 A/B Sets.

Scott

Thanks for the choice, Scott.  Another decision to make.

And, for the first time in the annals of the Forum, Palisades Pete has said something I agree with.

Are there any Santa Fe experts that can chime in and tell me when the Santa Fe would have painted these into the later Red color that Scott is offering. I still like the as delivered unless it only lasted a very short time.

The Es (both early and late) and the TA were wonderful! I’m sure these will be sweet as well! 

I ordered the B&O EA/EB units and would also like another A unit to go along with it.  If Scott offered this, I would add it my existing order.

And, for the first time in the annals of the Forum, Palisades Pete has said something I agree with.

For the first time in the annals of forum history, I am worried.  That would be about 20 years we have been battling here.  I would have thought that after 40 years you may have agreed with me.  Maybe.

Each time I see that Rocket I wish Texas ran through New Jersey.  But I am still close.  I think there are 2 sets left.  It will be fun to see how Scott's E1 stacks up with the the Key.  Pretty close I imagine.

As usual, Pete the Palisades Piker  listened only to his wallet and didn't buy that Rocket when his mentor told him to. Instead he mumbled something about a recently acquired Santa Fe E6. Ineducable. But not to worry, Pete. Texas will run not just through New Jersey but over it.

All that matters is that it looks like Scott's got another winner with these original E units. I'll add my vote to the individual E1A unit campaign, too.

And to all a good night!

- Mike

Question on the SF E1's. Would both the early and late versions have pulled the 38 Super Chief, or just the early one.

his mentor?

Mentor and Pusher do not mean the same thing.  I checked.

I'll vote for a single too.  Merry Christmas E1 fans!

sdmann posted:

Happy Holidays and New Year To Everyone!!!

We at Sunset Models / 3rd Rail are equally happy to announce the introduction of our EMC EA and E1 Locomotives. Many of you have been asking for these engines for some time now, and we now are in a position to deliver just that.

The Santa Fe E1s were used to pull the 1938 Super Chief, which we (GGD) are making in 2020. So don't forget to order both the E1s and Super Chief Set.

The B&O EAs were used to pull some famous B&O Trains including the Capitol Ltd, which we are also planning on making in 2020. Coincidence? Not hardly.

You can place your reservations on our web site: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#E1

Again, thank you for your continued support of these and other projects we are making. We look forward to serving you in 2020 and beyond.

Scott Mann - China.

Beautiful.  I purchased your E -5, and E-6.  I could not help myself.  Pre-ordered and awaiting order acknowledgement.  They will be beautiful with the Super Chief cars I have on order with you.

C'mon, Pete, stop quibbling over definitions and give credit where it's due. After all, who can spend your money better than I?

I think B&O “sold” one EA to the Alton RR and it eventually ended up on GM&O. 
If so, could be additional road/paint job options that could be added to offering.
Roads not that “popular” but worth consideration if correct (Just thinking to add to reserve numbers)

Trainbub

The Kasatelli and Cruimer show is definitely keeping this thread entertaining.  Ah the memories.

As for the B&O EA.  Yes B&O 52 went to the Alton in 1940 and became a GM&O unit in 1947. 

Anything to up the minimum run is always helpful.  GM&O has performed at an average level in the past. 

The KCS unit 21 or 822X mentioned somewhere in this thread was the E3 demonstrator.  A combination of EA components and E6 components from a modeling standpoint.  Not a lot were built, so it is unclear if that model would sell or not.  

Hmm... some traction motors are turning in my head. 

GG1 4877 posted:

As for the B&O EA.  Yes B&O 52 went to the Alton in 1940 and became a GM&O unit in 1947. 

Anything to up the minimum run is always helpful.  GM&O has performed at an average level in the past. 

 

Does it help your reservations when there is a passenger consist to pull rather than strictly motive power units?

BobbyD posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

As for the B&O EA.  Yes B&O 52 went to the Alton in 1940 and became a GM&O unit in 1947. 

Anything to up the minimum run is always helpful.  GM&O has performed at an average level in the past. 

 

Does it help your reservations when there is a passenger consist to pull rather than strictly motive power units?

It certainly does help.  The challenge is however with some of the less common roads is getting enough interest to meet the numbers for those sets.  I can't speak with authority on this, but I believe Scott still has a builder who is willing to 70 sets for a run in aluminum.  With add-on cars, it's still likely a 700 car run at $300.00 a car.  At that price there isn't a lot of profit built in at this point either.  

The 38 Chief certainly will help with the E1 as the consist slightly changed by the time the E6s took over as will the Capitol Limited for the EA even if I'd prefer the later Royal Blue since it ran on CNJ rails partially. 

At least for GM&O Weaver / Atlas did dome Osgood-Bradley coaches in that road name as I recall.  Finding them now might be a challenge.  I'm sure MTH has done that road in 18" cars as well.  Alton has been done several times in 18" heavyweights so maybe that helps?

The Kasatelli and Cruimer show is definitely keeping this thread entertaining.  Ah the memories.

We're back, smaller and worse than before.

After all, who can spend your money better than I?

And, for the first time in the annals of the Forum, Mineola Mike has said something I agree with.

Theses are some sharp engines - I’m seriously considering a Santa Fe set, but I have a question for the experts here... can someone tell me the difference between the “Early or Late Scheme Santa Fe E1 A/B”??? 

Thanks for your help.

Paul -

The principal difference is the shade of red used on the Warbonnet. The original is a red-orange, while later and more familiar shade is a deeper (signal?) red. Take a good look at the pix on the web site and this will be obvious.

Also, the original stripes on the B unit taper out before the back end of the car body. It's a little hard to tell in the promo pix, but they appear to run the full length in the later scheme.

Jonathan -

And you thought Pete couldn't get any smaller . . .

- Mike

tr18 posted:

Question on the SF E1's. Would both the early and late versions have pulled the 38 Super Chief, or just the early one.

Still looking for info on this regarding the timing of the switch from early version to late version.

The evolution of the early Super Chief and the power pulling it is a nearly monthly affair.  EAs arrived on the property in June 15, 1937 to supplement and eventually replace EMD 1A, 1B, & 1C.  The SC at that time had Budd sleepers that were combination of compartments and sections that proved to be archaic designs and the ATSF was not happy with them.  Pullman cars arrived on July 2, 1938.  E1 units 2 and 4 stayed as delivered for the '38 SC while 3 had modified number boards by 1939.  

In 1939, E3 11L-11A were added to supplement the E1s and by 1940 the E3 set and E6s 12-15 were primarily responsible for pulling this train but there is evidence that the E1s were still assigned to the SC at least through 1941.  By 1946 FTs were assigned to the train along with the first F3s and Alco PAs.

All E units were taken off transcontinental service by that time.

The simple answer is the early E1 is correct for the '38 SC in numbers 2, 3 & 4.   Numbers 5-9 were assigned to trains like the El Capitan, the San Diegan, and the Golden Gate. 

Honestly, I'm not totally sure what the complete difference between early and late is on the E1 outside of what Mike stated.  The largest difference I know of is when the E1's were remanufactured into E8ms in 1952.  I am wondering if Scott really meant early/late on the EA as there are distinctive paint schemes for the B&O.  A lot of projects in the works at the moment, so it is sometimes hard to keep them apart!

For anyone who is really interested in the minutia of the SC "Warbonnet" issues fourth quarter 2018 and first quarter 2019 have all the details.  Great resource for any ATSF fan.

My poor photos of the late E1 ..... 

Thanks Mike (@MIKE CASATELLI) and Jonathan (@GG1 4877). I am not a rigid counter, but I was just concerned that there might be some significant difference between the appearance of the two versions.

Jonathan... in the Show Me Your Best thread, you posted some videos of the 3rd Rail beautiful E6’s. I really like the deep red... Is the red on that engine the same as Late version of the E1???

Thanks. 

Among the pratfalls associated with playing even a tongue-in-cheek “expert” on the Forum is that every now and then you wind up being hoist on your own petard. Such is the situation I find myself in today. Over the last weekend I learned that many Santa Fe savvy advisors to Scott and Co. think that my belief in the existence of an early, “orangy” version of the Warbonnet is not a matter of fact but one of folklore.

Many color photos in readily available Santa Fe references or accessible on line indeed suggest to me that the original color tended toward orange. That said, I can find no other evidence to support my opinion. It just may be that differences in light, film, and printing processes create the color variations that are evident in the photos, even of freshly painted, clean locomotives. Others here, notably Jonathan, are far better equipped to comment on that than I.

Back in 1996, pages 60-61 of the June issue of Trains presented Mike Danneman’s two page spread on the origins of the Warbonnet. Entitled Thanks, Leland, it included a beautiful illustration of an E1A resplendent in Leland Knickerbocker’s then new Warbonnet color scheme and featuring a red nose - bright red. In the text, Danneman describes it as "brilliant red." I’ll take his word for it any day.

As to the matter at hand, I regret both the confusion I have caused here and the addition of an unwarranted complication to Scott’s efforts. I’ll no longer be using the Pretty Krummy pre-post fact checking service over in Jersey, nor will I ever again trust my lyin’ eyes. I’ll just count on Scott and Jonathan to get it right. If I still get a vote, I say make the red on this new engine the same as was applied to the E6s. They really were stunning.

Oh, and Happy New Year!

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over this. Gary Schrader already did the research for these... except for a couple of “goofs” the Key models are dead on...

Late 40’s E1 below