Help repairing a K-line with TMCC- sounds but no movment

Have you tried a reset? That would be first on my list. 

How do you do a reset ?

The instuctions with the unit should give you the code, but make sure the run program is in run during a test.  If still no joy place the switch in program, power up track:

 

ENG

#1 (example0

Set

Eng

1

AUX1

(Engine code try 8 for diesel)

Turn power off

wait 10sec and place switch back in run

 

Start track power and test.

 

If no joy, trace wiring to motor driver and make sure no broken wires under insulation.   G

If that engine has K-Line cruise control you will want the instructions to do a reset. There's a specific code for a diesel with K-Line cruise and smoke, and not using the right code can cause it to not move. Unfortunately I don't have the specific code for that engine as I don't have any K-Line diesels with cruise. The information about there being a different code came from the instructions for a steamer with cruise.

 

One thing to check is that the program/run switch is in RUN position. If it has been inadvertently moved to Program, the engine will not move. 

The K-Line cruise documentation is in the documentation thread pinned to the top of the forum topic list.

 

tried the engine with tmcc cab 1 and the engine ran fine, but when coupled with the other powered unit it was a little jerky but the engine moved.  I cannot get it to run in conventional.  I am a bit puzzled now

Is the failure to move in conventional a new problem, or did you just get the locomotive? I had a brand-new K-Lionel SD75 club engine that came out of the box working OK in TMCC mode, but it wouldn't run in conventional. I sent it back and they replaced the R2LC (radio) board under warranty. It's run fine ever since.

 

You could also have a reset issue if your engine has K-Line cruise control. This is a quote from an instruction sheet I downloaded on resetting K-Line engines with cruise:

If the R2LC is not told it has cruise, it will not run in non command.

Check your instruction manual for the correct reset procedure and codes for your engine. I have a cheat sheet that I could post, but the codes are for a steamer so I'd rather refer you to the manual in case they are different for your diesel. The code for K-Line cruise is 7, but it is entered in combination with another code. 

 

Bill, I had this same issue with K-Line cruise.  Works fine in TMCC no motion in conventional.  I may try the 74 code for my steamer.  G

 

GGG, this is a K-line Cruise version also..I will try resetting it , and if not I believe I have a radio board to try swapping with ... I'll keep you posted

I just used 74 and it doesn't improve.  I have seen this on a factory cruise version and my own upgrade cruise.

 

Works great in command, but only crawls along in conventional  I don't know if others have the same experience, I asked this a week or 2 ago.  I think cruise would need to be turned off to work right.

 

I can't explain it, wish there was someone with more knowledge on what K-line was doing with code.   G

When the K-Line cruise is working, it works quite well.  However, I've had a couple that I could never get working "right", I guess there's a "magic touch" on those.

 

 

You're probably right, I have a couple that have ERR Cruise Commander M boards in them, they run fine now.

 

 

We just gad this discussion a couple of days ago.
GRJ noted that that was a typo on his part.

Code 78 is sometimes the code for Diesel with cruise and smoke. Otherwise it is 8.
The reason I say sometimes is because my 4-6-6t with cruise and fan driven smoke uses code 74 per the K-line manual

My K-line scale Berkshire with cruise and puffer smoke uses code 4 per the manual.
My K-line Pa-1 without smoke or cruise uses code 8.

I would try code 78 first than code 8
Code 74 is for Steam

Not totally sure but I believe I was told the 7 inverts the Serial Data required for conventional. Or something like that. 
The 8 is always the Diesel code

Also I believe if you shut the cruise off it should work in conventional without the correct code as long as you use 8 for diesel

I am starting to question The cruise reset code. I know John just reposted from elsewhere because I have found it also but in only one place and then another form.  It may do something but I'm not sure what. I have never seen it printed in any K-line reference manual. Only hand typed in a forum thread. I do wish somebody else could provide documentation. I have tried and never have been successful.

I did some research.
It looks like Norton posted that in 2013 as a word doc. 
But he said he also copied it previously a couple of years previously from the forum.

Not your bad GRJ because you did not write it. Just archived it.
And Norton was just doing the same.

I recall asking the question in 2013 because I had just bought my 4-6-6t and the manual contradicted the document.
I think besides setting the speed steps, nothing else in that doc is verifiable or correct.
Maybe we should put a disclaimer on it.

This is what is posted in the sticky thread referenced above.

 

quote:

TO RESTORE TMCC FUNCTIONS:

STEP 1: Move switch on loco from RUN to PROGRAM

STEP 2: Turn on Command Base
STEP 3: Place loco on track, then turn on power to track

STEP 4: Press "ENG" then input loco ID#. Press "SET".

STEP 5: Press "ENG" then input loco ID# again.

STEP 6: Press "AUX 1", then input the reprogramming code number than corresponds to your loco (See list below).

STEP 7: Turn off power to track, wait ten seconds.
STEP 8: Remove loco from track, move switch from PROGRAM to RUN.

STEP 9: Place loco back on track. Turn power on to track.
STEP 10: Press "ENG" and ID#, then operate as normal.

 

I can not find "step 5" in any of the original K-line manuals I have.  I suggest doing the procedure but skipping step 5 listed above and see if that helps.

 

Also, the "Steam Locomotive Instruction Sheet" that specifically states "This engine is equipped with K-LINE Cruise Control..." states to press "4" to return engine to factory program settings.  Nothing about "7" because of the cruise feature.

 

Is the R2LC seated properly.. The reason I ask is because a friend brought over a k- line engine with the same problem.. sounds but no movement... The r2LC board had completely fallen out, Easy fix.

GunrunnerJohn question I seem to remember if you try to run it in conventional you can put it in program which will lock it in that direction just was thinking he could try that 

Don't try this please until we hear from GRJ as don't want to give bad info

Most TMCC locomotives use the PGM/RUN switch to lock out direction changes in conventional.

 

I've had a few K-Line cruise engines come through, and I own a couple as well.  I've been successful in setting them to run properly, but it took multiple tries.  There are a number of different techniques that claim to be the "right" one, so I just go down the list.  Since there's no official source of info, at least none that I'm aware of, I collect whatever tips I can and try to sift through them.

 

GregM, the step 5 is in several references, I don't know that it makes a difference or not.  It would seem that the engine should already be selected...

 

Again, I have had no issues with K-Line Cruise working in TMCC, but it does seem they don't move normally in conventional.  Units I have seen did not have an off switch.  Nor is it discussed in the K-Line literature.

 

I have seen various instructions.

 

The codes are based on Lionel's stuff which discussed.  I Have tried 4, 74, 34, 43, all which are codes various Lionel steam products used over the years.

These are R2lC with RS 4 via wire tether. 

 

Just weird, and as Fred has stated some models do have different codes for the same basic steam engine.

 

Works great in tmcc so I don't worry.  Customer wanted to use it conventional only, so I installed a DCDR and it worked fine.  G

I am always open to the idea that I am missing a point or just misunderstanding.

But isn't the OP trying to reset A DIESEL?
If he is than I believe that he needs a combination of 78 or 8 to reset.

Hi John,
The  sticky cheat sheet still contradicts itself in the last Add On instructions. Saying the 8 code is for STEAM with smoke.

I think that leads to a lot of confusion.
I have two K_line Manuals for steam with smoke.
Bershire with cruise and puffing smoke. code 4 just arrived last night.
4-6-6t with cruise and fan smoke. code 74.
I will scan and post both.
The only other code that I have actual K-line documentation for is setting "Stall" with cruise turned off. k-line used F,Aux1,F,Aux1. To set. To disable, add the Dir command in front. To my knowledge the is no way to set the High Voltage "top speed" in a K-line cruise equipped Loco even with cruise turned off. But I have not actually tried. Will update with results if I do.

I think those stickies need separate categories.

Official factory documents. USE AT OWN RISK
Tested and proven methods that work sometimes. USE AT OWN RISK.
un documented,untested, in proven instructions that may actually work. USE AT OWN RISK.

LOL

Excellent point!

GGG,
If you google K-line cruise reset codes, you will come up with .PDF instructions for a Weaver USDA Light Steamer. It uses a K-Line Cruise Board.
Instructions are almost word for word identical to K-line but the reset code is "43"

I have been curious about where you got that onefor a couple of years and feel that I should either apoligize or at least admit that I doubted you on that one.
You were correct and that should be added to the Official document category.

Actually Bill was not trying to reset, but figure out why his cruise model would not move (in conventional).  Later it worked fine in TMCC, but still no go in conventional.

 

I have an Allegheny I upgraded with K-line cruise (4.0) and a customer also has one with factory cruise (4.0).  Neither run right in conventional.  They crawl along at about 1 mph.  Why? G

Never doubt me, I don't make stuff up!  Too many years of being told the correct answer is " I don't know, but I will find out SIR!"

 

I have a fleet of 1998 to 2002 TMCC engines.  I have studied the codes in the instruction it is weird.  I also have experimented.  If you look at Lionels table there is no logic though folks talk about inverting, non inverting, on and off, etc...

 

I asked Jon Z and they don't have detailed notes from what the programmers were doing back than.  It was a different company.

 

Do all your K-line Cruise engines run in conventional correctly?  With cruise on?   G

Use Code 7

 

Bill

Hi Bill,
use code 7 for what?

Hi GGG,
I never actually ran any of these cruise engines in conventional.
If I get a spare moment, I will.
I usually keep my command base attached to my ZW-C.
If I am running conventional engines, I usually just leave my Command Locos parked where they are. 
I keep a lot of isolated sidings to park engines if I want to completely de energize.

I think Lee Willis runs all in conventional. I think he has a K-line 4-6-6t if my memory is not failing me. Not sure if he runs in cruise mode but I know he likes to run slow.
Maybe he will weigh in.

 

 

For the programming code.

 

Bill

Hi Bill,
Just "7"?

That code is not in anyone's list.
Even yours posted in the Reference thread.

Is Code 7 for all K-line Cruise?
Just for Diesel Cruise to fix OP's conventional issue?

Thanks to all the great information and replies. I need to get time to get to the bench, but have a wave of issues hitting our family right now and just when I think I can catch a breathe, we get hit again. 

But I digress.. I will try the resets.. but let me ask this.. since I am not as well versed in modern Lionel electronics, what options would I have to restore TMCC AND Conventional operations?  Thanks again and I hope to have positive results soon

Bill, Like I aid above, you can go back and install a DCDR and just loose cruise, or you go the ERR Cruise M route and install their cruise motor driver.  G

 

 

Or you can reprogram using code 7 and the engine will run in conventional. This is for K-line engines with cruise. A lot cheaper then the $85.00 Cruise "M"

 

Bill