Help with clockwork

Gene, I've worked on a lot of different clockwork trains, but I've never had a Lionel windup motor on the bench.  They seem to be uncommon in any condition, let alone operational.  I would imagine parts are equally hard to find.  However, any windup motor can be repaired if you spend enough time in the machine shop.  Replacement parts can either be adapted from other mfg's parts, or made from scratch.  The question becomes one of originality; would you rather have an operating Lionel clockwork locomotive that contains some non-original parts, or a completely original non-running display piece?  I can't answer that for you... it is your train, your decision.  The ideal scenario would be for someone to post who has experience with this particular motor and access to original parts to repair it.  However, if there aren't any other volunteers, I would be happy to take a look at it for you - assuming you are OK with custom made replacement parts and you aren't in a hurry.  To give you an idea of some work that I've done, take a look at my web pages on Clockwork Train Repairs and Clockwork Train Projects.  My email address is in my profile if you would like to contact me.  Good luck with the train!

James,

Really nice work!

Larry

James, excellent work. I can certainly appreciate how hard it is to work on a clock work motor after cracking open a Donald Duck handcar to fix the spring. I eventually got it together and running, but I'm not likely to try that again. 

Gene, I would certainly trust your motor to James, it looks like he knows his way around them pretty well. 

Gandy

Here is my Ives 17. James did the repairs for this one as well as some other motors for me. I have another Ives about ready to send to James to review.

Steve

First of all, what a GREAT forum.  Many thanks to all for the inputs.

To Gary, best I can figure from your comments and my observation, I believe that all I need to do to remove the motor is to bend the two tabs at the right and left of the motor rear (seen in the photo below) until they are straight and then wiggle and jiggle the motor rear down and out?  If this is not your experience would appreciate some amplification?

James, I am highly impressed with your work and deeply appreciate your offer of help.  I have always preferred to have trains that run and lean strongly in that direction.  That being said, when I took the attached photos below I noticed for the first time that one of the drive wheels has hairline cracks and on closer examination that wheel may not tolerate much running.  So . . .  I need to think about where one or four replacement wheels might come from.  While I dislike the idea of a shelf unit, that may be the best? 

I have looked online, including Olsen Trains, and have not seen any parts lists or exploded diagrams of this engine.  Any help in this regard would be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Gene

Gary, thanks for taking the initiative to figure out the 1511 motor removal.  I'll file the information away for future use!

Gene, I agree that the loco will need a sound set of wheels if you want repair and operate it.  It is usually necessary to pull at least some of the drivers off the axles to work on the guts of the motor, so if there are already hairline cracks on the wheels, it is very likely they would break in the process.  Until you can find some reproductions or a good set of originals, I think it would be best to leave the locomotive as-is.

Now, a question for those that are knowledgeable about pre-war Lionel:  On early Marx locomotives, the electric and windup locomotives used similar die cast drivers (some of the wheels are identical).  I have been able to use electric wheels - either stock or modified somewhat - on the windup motors.  Are there any prewar Lionel 

electric locomotives that use a drive wheel with the same or similar appearance to the wheels on the 1511 clockwork?  If so, are reproductions available?

And of course, thanks to everyone for the kind comments about the clockwork repairs.

Steve, I look forward to working on the next Ives! 

I guess I do have one lonely Lionel windup in the collection... but it is a Torpedo clockwork shell that I bought without a motor.  I installed a Marx windup motor of the same vintage to power it.  It is top heavy, fast, and looks great heading up a passenger train:

You guys are going to cost me some money - I've got to find a Lionel 1511 for the fleet! 

James

That Torpedo needs one of you governor mods.

Steve

Just for info, I have found replacement after market wheels (I think by Bowser) but they are 8 spoke and my originals appear to be 12 spoke.  I'll keep looking.  I'm not willing to replace the wheels with ones that don't look original.

On another subject.  What kind of lubrication (if any) should these motors have.  I expect that the motor spring should not be lubricated??  What about bearings and gears?

Thanks,

Gene

Like everything, opinions vary on lubrication of clockwork motors.  I use a non-gumming light "Turbine Oil" that is made for electric fan motors that receive intermittent maintenance.  Another alternative is to use a full synthetic motor oil, as they are less prone to gumming than a conventional oil.  I apply it to all bearing points and gears.  Be careful to keep it out of a centrifugal governor, or the motor may run too fast for the locomotive to stay on the track.  Now, as far as mainspring lubrication - the classic English preference is for either a clean, dry spring, or use a graphite lube for clock mainsprings.  I have had good luck with light lubing of the mainspring with oil.  The theory of not oiling the mainspring is that it will create a suction between the coils, hampering the unwinding and robbing power.  My experience is that a dry mainspring has a tendency to create more drag between the coils and also between the edges of the spring and the motor sideplate/big gear.  Your mileage may vary!

Thanks James.  I value the advise of someone who has obviously run a lot of windup trains.  I have several Marx windups and my Lionel 1511 which I hope to start running from time to time.

Gene