Help with K-Line Allegheny running too slow

Depending how old the engine is, did your check the grease in the gear box and oil the axles and such.

Doug

trnluvr posted:

Depending how old the engine is, did your check the grease in the gear box and oil the axles and such.

Doug

I lubricated it all up before I tried it out. The engine doesn't sound like it's struggling at all, just acting like the throttle is down. I was reading up on the functions the TMCC could do and there's some stuff about cruise control and variable loads, would those affect the engine running?

I use analog controllers for all scales, I'm clueless as to how all the computerized stuff works.

This locomotive came stock without cruse, which was a option you could buy later and install.  Did you take the engine trucks off and check the grease?  Did you make sure that both motors are turning?  How much voltage are you sending to the track?

I've been using TMCC pretty much since it came out. There is a way that a TMCC locomotive can be set to a low voltage so as to limit its top speed. This is a "child-resistant" feature to keep the kids from running the engine off the layout too many times...a friend used to do this to his when his son was young.

I am presuming that, once set, this feature would be active in conventional mode, also. 

I never did it; what I would recommend is going to a hobby shop or a friend with TMCC and an instruction manual (it's not that complicated) and un-doing this. It won't hurt anything if that's not the problem. Your loco sounds like it's in good shape, but it's set to go only so fast.

Certainly it may be something else, but that is the place to start. If I can find my manual...

However, if the motherboard/motor driver board is indeed bad, since you are a conventional operator, the loco could be equipped with a plain reversing unit (see Dallee Electronics, for example).

You really should try TMCC...friendly, simple.

That's kind of what I was expecting, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a switch or something along those lines to turn it off. I'll have to track down someone with TMCC, I don't know of anyone who has it off the top of my head.

As for buying it myself, I can't justify paying hundreds of dollars for a controller, especially just for one engine.

Hey Brian I will be at the National City Depot on Sunday, I can help you figure it out. 

I'll probably end up taking it to Reeds.

K-Line cruise can do that if not properly programmed.  Here's a compendium of programming tips that have been collected from various sources.  It's helped me to get a couple of K-Line locomotives running properly.

I've also included the K-Line cruise installation guide.  One thing you'll want to probably do is use the 128 step mode, this seems to yield the best results.

Brian Liesberg posted:

As for buying it myself, I can't justify paying hundreds of dollars for a controller, especially just for one engine.

$250 isn't that much, and you can always find it for cheaper from some of the OGR sponsors.  And I say this because I once thought like you, and even felt justified when I got an old used TMCC set for cheap just to try for my K-Line Allegheny and Big Boy and it didn't work.  Even after finding out the base was bad and fixing it, I was still under whelmed by command.  Once I got a Legacy steamer I was 100% sold.  Now I have command controlled transformers and love operating my conventional locomotives that way, with my command locomotives at the same time.  And unless you never buy a new engine, you're going to get more command locomotives, and that alone makes a command remote purchase justifiable.  Just some things to keep in mind.

Thanks John, those are helpful!

Sinclair, my O gauge collection consists mostly of prewar tinplate rolling stock. Scale O gauge is too expensive, and lacks variety of the era I like to model (1870's-1910). I can see how it's useful for running multiple trains at once but for one engine, the capability to play a few extra sounds just isn't worth it to me.

Brian - 

It does seem like any command system is not your route, at least not now, but used TMCC (not Legacy - but they are compatible) sets - controller and command base, all there is to it; connect 1 wire...-can be had economically and I have had the same command base for 20+ years.

I used to run in the old F-N-R scheme, and just never liked it; without command control (Lionel's friendly TMCC system) coming along, I would have gotten out of O-gauge into something else - at least straight DC 2-rail O-scale - or out of model RR'ing altogether. 

When, years ago, I picked up my first CAB-1 to run my Lionel Warhorse J (even though it is a poor runner, actually), for the first time I felt as if I was actually running the locomotive (and I was) and not running the track in order to give imprecise "hints" to the loco. It made all the difference to me.

Perception - go figure. I haven't been tied to a transformer for 2 decades. As far as the sounds go, they are OK, but I have some up command upgraded locos without it, and that's fine. And I really only use the most basic command functions.

But all that's just me.

Yeah, everyone has different wants & needs. I'm happy with my tinplate stuff, once I get this thing working I might end up selling this trainset off to get a big Standard Gauge set, I've always wanted a 400e.

At least you have thought the choice of a command system through, which is important.  But back to the topic at hand, does the locomotive's speed increase through the whole transformer handle throw, or does it reach top speed (As slow as it may be.) quickly and moving the handle more doesn't increase speed at all?

The K-Line manual that came with my Allegheny indicates no way to clear a top speed setting in the conventional environment. If you take the engine somewhere where there’s TMCC control, the manual indicates:  To clear  (High Voltage Setting),  press SET, then BOOST, holding it for one second. Hope that’s all it is. Great engine.

My own Allegheny with Cruise and others I have run into do not run right in conventional.  I reverted one back to a DCDR because that is how the owner wanted it.  All the different codes, resets,  do not seem to work.  I will try Richards input today.

Runs great in command, but not conventional.  Just slow slow speed regardless of voltage.   G

Mine always ran fine in conventional, but it never had the K-Line cruse installed.

If the K-Line cruise isn't configured properly, it can cause issues for conventional running.  This comes up from time to time here.

Sorry, I neglected to include that mine (like SINCLAIR's) is the earlier release, sans cruise. Wasn't K-Line's cruise provided by TAS? 

K-Line actually had their own cruise module, it was not the TAS cruise.

Yes this comes up over and over but NO ONE has ever given a process that works with the K-Line Cruise for the Allegheny.  I have done the Lionel Hold the throttle and whistle, the speed clears, tried every number combination including 2 and 3 digit ones.  It just won't run fast in conventional.  This does not have the cruise on and off switch, and the only thing I have not tried is electronically turning it on or off with some of the Lionel/ERR codes.   G

Time to rip out the cruise module.   I think this is an issue with the earlier versions of the K-Line cruise, I wonder if the Rev. 4 board would have the issue?

I tried rev 4 in a K Line Hudson. Awful. So I put in a Cruise Commander M and it runs great.

Interesting, I have the K-Line Train Master with K-Line cruise and it runs fine in command.  I confess, I have never tried it in conventional mode.

I was only running tmcc. It was kind of jerky so I put in the Cruise M and that seemed really smooth.

There's quite a bit of tuning to the K-Line cruise to get it running smoothly at times, you might have been able to beat it into submission.

We don't even know if the OP's locomotive has K-Line cruise.  He needs to pull the shell off and see if one of the motors has the sensor on it.  Nor has he answered my questions on how it is reacting to the voltage changes.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Time to rip out the cruise module.   I think this is an issue with the earlier versions of the K-Line cruise, I wonder if the Rev. 4 board would have the issue?

John, Mine is a Rev 4. Runs fantastic in cruise. Just doesn't work in Conventional.  Same with my customers.  I do believe this came both ways, cruise, or Regular.  Not a real issue for me.  G

I have a ver 3 and a ver 4....wondered about the difference if any.

sinclair posted:

We don't even know if the OP's locomotive has K-Line cruise.  He needs to pull the shell off and see if one of the motors has the sensor on it.  Nor has he answered my questions on how it is reacting to the voltage changes.

It reacts as you said (runs slowly no matter what the voltage is). I don't really want to pull the shell off of this locomotive, I'm not familiar with modern designs.

Like I said earlier I got my answer, I can't fix this problem with my analog controller. So I'll be taking it to the Model Train store this weekend to have them test it with TMCC.

cjack posted:

I have a ver 3 and a ver 4....wondered about the difference if any.

Must be a difference, or there wouldn't have been a rev change.

Yes. I used the ver 4, thinking that, but didn't have the info at the time to finesse it. The M was so painless tho. 

I thought about selling the K kits, but figured that the motors were worth keeping them in case I needed one for something.

Brian Liesberg posted:

sinclair posted:

We don't even know if the OP's locomotive has K-Line cruise.  He needs to pull the shell off and see if one of the motors has the sensor on it.  Nor has he answered my questions on how it is reacting to the voltage changes.

It reacts as you said (runs slowly no matter what the voltage is). I don't really want to pull the shell off of this locomotive, I'm not familiar with modern designs.

Like I said earlier I got my answer, I can't fix this problem with my analog controller. So I'll be taking it to the Model Train store this weekend to have them test it with TMCC.

Never fear taking a shell off of a modern locomotive, it's not that much different then the older stuff.  And on this one, it'll save you a lot of headache at the train store if you keep trying to adjust the cruise performance when it doesn't have cruise.  And the only way to know if it has it is to take the shell off and see if one of the motors has a speed sensor on it.  Mine is currently in a pile of parts waiting for me to get around and doing a bunch of upgrades.

question for gunrunnerjohn.  Can I eliminate the k-line cruse control and just run the power wires straight to the motor.  That might correct this problem.

Nope, the motor is a DC motor for starters.  Also, if you were to add a rectifier to run it on track power, it would be a conventional transformer control only with only forward motion and no sounds.  The Cruise module is the control for the motor, and it's tied into the rest of the electronics package.