How many of us would like to see a New Haven I5?

I would love to see Lionel make these.  (My wallet would not.)

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Does anyone have any information on what sort of cars these engines pulled, guessing that they should be some sort of streamlined ones, but you never can tell as some railroads just through stuff together after some time?

I found a mix of results looking for images.

Many appear to be all heavyweight consists

New Haven Railroad Baldwin I-5 class 4-6-4 Hudson steam lo… | Flickr

New Haven Railroad I-5 class 4-6-4 Hudson steam locomotive… | Flickr

New Haven Railroad Baldwin I-5 class 4-6-4 streamlined Hud… | Flickr

But there are also several with what appear to be mixed consists

New Haven Railroad I-5 class Baldwin coal burning 4-6-4 Hu… | Flickr

New Haven class I-5 | Train, Train pictures, Steam trains (pinterest.com)

new haven railroad yankee clipper - Google Search | Steam locomotive, Railroad photos, Railroad pictures (pinterest.jp)

Pin by Alec Urban on Trains in 2023 | Railroad photos, Train museum, Railroad pictures (pinterest.com)

This one you can only see two cars, but it might be an all fluted train?

Pin by Strain Lee on Train pictures in 2023 | Train, Old trains, Train pictures (pinterest.com)

Didn't  Weaver Models do one?  Unless Lionel is going to do some Hybrid Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson's, Hunting down a Weaver models would be your best bet.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Didn't  Weaver Models do one?  Unless Lionel is going to do some Hybrid Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson's, Hunting down a Weaver models would be your best bet.

Weaver has made the only one(s) that I know of. I saw two different versions here at York on Thursday when York opened. I don't know which two road numbers were there as I didn't get a good look at it. I'd have to review some information online to see what they produced.

Dave, Many thanks for all the data on the I-5's. I grew up on the New Haven to Springfield mainline in Meriden Connecticut. Unfortunately, born in 1947, I missed seeing them run through Meriden. I did see a steady stream of DL109's, FA's and PA's and an occasional FM C liner. I have a large model railroad and I have 3 each I-5's from Weaver along with an I-4 Weaver Pacific. I sent all three  I-5's to Pat Norcross (Harmon Shops) for total reworking. I have received the first rebuilt one back. It has a new larger can motor, new transmission and gearing, new heavier side rods, new super chuffer and smoke unit and new electronics. In my opinion, Weaver did a splendid job on a locomotive that neither Lionel or MTH wanted to build. Several years ago they were hard to find. My understanding was there were several available at York this week. No one should be worried about purchasing this locomotive that was released somewhere around 2012. After visiting Pat Norcross and seeing what he did with my first one, I would not hesitate to buy one of these because Pat can make anything that needs to be repaired or replaced. Its a great model to have leading a nice string of New Haven heavyweight passenger cars.   Bill

There was one left at York before I left, that was 1409 towards Mr. Muffin's booth. I do know that the other I5 was a different number, maybe 1402 or 1403? Heck I don't know.

What I do know in chatting briefly today with Putnam Division and Mr. Muffin is that these would be new tooling as there isn't anything about that is known. The Weaver tooling vanished or such, MTH tried from what else I was told, but couldn't get enough orders.

To further all this, I still think that this would be a great hit for Lionel to see about getting done. Granted it is going to be hard to make something off of it if they need a new tooling to do so, but you figure they would be able to do second and future runs. They would most certainly do a fantasy scheme or two, so that is most likely as well.

Passenger cars would be interesting, and Peter said that they had an 84' set of cars if I remember from what he said. I can't for the life of me remember what he said they were called, but I'd definitely be in on biting on two engines. I guess we'll have to see what comes or doesn't come, and pester when able. Until I get home, I'll have to look at more information on the Weaver runs if I can find out about them.

I’m not sure of the actual number of models produced. Weaver issued 2 different runs of these. Kind of unusual in the brass world. Both runs had the block and script lettering.  The second run I believe was announced after MTH cancelled theirs for lack of orders. The second run featured EOB and better smoke features. They are a nice engine. Not great as far as pulling a long consist. I think a lot of it is the engine just not weighing enough for good traction.

As far as Lionel making one. I would think you could use the motor and chassis from a NYC Hudson and build around it.

You mostly saw them pulling heavyweights. The Merchants Limited and Yankee Clipper featured mostly Parlor Cars. PULLMAN lettered except for the diner. The standard heavyweights offered could be made to work with some window changes and parlor chairs versus coach seats. If you already own an I5 and are looking for proper cars. You can do up the interior with aftermarket parlor chairs and Clover House has the correct names of the cars available as dry transfers.

They pulled aluminum cars for I think only one year at the very end. I have seen in a video. One pulling an all baggage consist with a caboose at the rear.

As far as the Weaver model goes, they can be made into good runners. As far as who would reintroduce this model on the market, I’d think you’d have an easier go getting Scott Mann to make it,….he already has the tools to produce the wheels, ( same as the 3rd Rail Mercury ) and as Dave points out, chassis same as a NYC Hudson. I think Lionel has committed themselves to either reusing existing tools or their own, or modified tools from Kline & MTH,…..however, a die cast I5 would be a very nice locomotive…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I think Lionel has committed themselves to either reusing existing tools or their own, or modified tools from Kline & MTH,…..

Pat

Or if the tooling gets stolen, hijacked, damaged, dropped or lost.  Then they will spend the money on new tooling.  Milk cars, A5 and A1 as good examples

The type of coaches I think Peter @Putnam Division was talking about before I left York were Osgood Bradley Coaches. They look completely different to any other coach I have seen, at least the ones in the YouTube Video I found. One other thing is the railroad's name. It appears the models are labeled New York, New Haven, & Hartford, were as some of the actual photos are labeled New Haven. I guess at some point in time they just started calling it the New Haven and that stuck?

I KNOW Dave C got it right about the Weaver and MTH production about 20 years ago. I ordered the first Weaver but at the year and a half mark with no engine, I cancelled. I ordered the MTH and obviously didn't get one. I never bothered to order from the second Weaver run, but was fortunate enough to pick one up many years later thanks to Marty Fitzhenry. Marty also upgraded it and put DCS in it for me. It's a great engine.

Gerry

Marty, was very proud of that conversion. He saw one as a youth as he lived right near the NH mainline. His first thought was to purchase one and place the shell on an MTH Hudson chassis that already featured DCS. He said it was a good fit but the wheel style wasn’t exactly correct. He finally picked up a Weaver and did the conversion.

The answer to Dave’s question is a tough one for me. Sure, I’d love to have this engine………but, if I’m in for the engine, I’m in for the correct cars……..given the cost and given the fact that it was only a passenger engine, it’s not right for me at this stage. Then, I have to find the baggage cars and RPOs which may be harder….

I could have made a good offer on one of the two Uncle Jack had for sale…….but then, I would have to commit to a rebuild with sound and command. In addition, I would not hunt for old Weaver cars, I would wait for new Bradley’s by Atlas. I’m 70, and when will that happen?

In addition, as I said, I am 70. I’m very healthy, but unfortunately, in my career I have had to tell people may times over my 40 years in Nephrology that health can be fleeting…….certainly, I do not dwell on this nor does it bother as I live my life. However, when you commit to a project like this, you have to look at the big picture.

Lastly, when I ask if getting this engine is a priority, I have to say, that though this engine would be fun to have, I have plenty of trains and loads of train friends…..and, because of this hobby, the train friends are the true treasure!

Peter

@Dave_C posted:

Marty, was very proud of that conversion. He saw one as a youth as he lived right near the NH mainline. His first thought was to purchase one and place the shell on an MTH Hudson chassis that already featured DCS. He said it was a good fit but the wheel style wasn’t exactly correct. He finally picked up a Weaver and did the conversion.

Dave, when I was searching for further information I actually came across Marty's post here on the forum. I read his comments and watched the videos he posted. I only met Marty in person once, but never had an opportunity to actually talk to him. A great missed opportunity to be able to talk to one great man.

Peter, I had considered selling my I5, but decided not to do that. Obviously, everyone makes their own decisions based on many factors, and you certainly know some of mine. But having one engine, more or less, doesn't change the game at all and needing to search for something provides you with an activity. Or if you just get the engine you could name your RR the LOAF RR (lack of adequate funds) and run whatever you want behind the I5.

Gerry

100% Gerry. I'm very picky with what I buy to an extent. The Big Boys is not my cup of tea and never will be. Give me the Y's, EM's and Challengers. I love the look of certain streamlined engines, and this one is one that is a for sure for me.

We often look for something that is meaningful and iconic, or even deeper than those two. I must admit, I knew that there were Hudsons than ran up on the New Haven, but until a few years ago, I didn't know about the I5's. Sid'a recent conversion got my brain exploding yet again, and seeing these at York on Thursday just drove it moreso.

If Lionel decides to run these, I'm in. Already chatted with Steve(Mr. Muffin) about passenger cars and the engine in general, so we'll have to see what comes. I do know if these do get cataloged, I'm calling Steve immediately to get more of an idea what he wants to do.

Until then, I think I will do some more research and see what else I can find out about the Weaver runs. Right now I'm not sure if they ran a batch with just "New Haven" on the tender or not. See what I can dig up over the next few days.

@PSM, great links there, I didn't get a chance to view them before. Some of the drivers look slightly different, but I don't know if it is just the photo or a real difference. Maybe I'm still tired, lol.

@Bill Park, I love watching your videos when you have posted them. Your layout is a great and photogenic one at that. Believe me when I tell you Pat has tons of work coming from me. He has a few things currently but there are a good number of fixes(gearbox K4'S and Mikado's) as well as a number of upgrades to happen. My love for the New York Central could be a bane to others, but I want Pat's magic to make some things we haven't seen produced in O scale as yet. He has my J1e Hudson with the Vanderbilt Tender that I want to pop. There wasn't any New York Central engine with a Vanderbilt Tender in real life, but I just love the way that thing looks(I still need to get a second one for upgrading too).

I've only just started getting a New Haven collection started, I'll have to see what else I can get my teeth into as well as be educated on what was and what most certainly wasn't

You would think that to make an streamlined I5, should be less expensive that say a Hudson without streamlining requiring all the small details normally seen on or near the boiler.  I was just looking at the 2023 Lionel catalog an was applying that same, probably very wrong reasoning, to a couple diesels shown.  Both were $600, but one was very colorful, where the Conrail model was all black with a couple dinky CR decals and numbers.  The colorful one would seem to require more manpower in the color application versus solid black which might just be black plastic with a clear coat.  Perhaps the lack of expense of the Conrail engine, versus more work on the other, averages out the price to be lower overall across the series.  Or the cost of paint and detailing is negligible in any of the models.

I assisted Weaver with the research for the New Haven "American Flyer" coaches -- which I thought came out superb -- as well as the I5, and I was the MTH catalog writer when we tried to do the I5. We did extensive research for the MTH model, and our plan was to build an engine several notches above the Weaver brass version -- with stainless plated metal in the spots where the prototype had it, for example. It's quite a while ago, but if I recall correctly, part of the reason the engine was canceled was that one of the dealers who had a large New Haven clientele failed to send in his orders. It would have been an awesome model. One of the great lost opportunities ..

@Barry L. Lewis that is indeed unfortunate. It would have been something great I'm sure. Mostly all the great models brought out the doors of MTH were(and are) indeed incredible. Peter did mention to me yesterday that MTH was working on it but didn't get enough to bring it. Man, if only.

The Weaver I-5 upgraded with a Cruise Commander is a respectable engine performance-wise. My typical consist behind it is 4 - 6 head end cars and 2 - 3 coaches, and I haven't had a problem with my fairly steep grades. There is one up on the 'Bay for under $1000 at the moment.

What I would like to see for New Haven steam from Lionel is a Mogul, using the arched-window B&M cab that was also used extensively by the New Haven. This would require no new tooling on Lionel's part.

For a new brass model, I'd like to see an L-1 2-10-2; an absolute monster of a freight engine.

NYNH&H STEAM - CLASS L 2-10-2 (google.com)

~Chris

I love steam… I love the New Haven… I’d be in for one. I have two or three sets of NH passenger cars, but, since I’m not a rivet counter by any means, I’d have no problem running an I5 with a smart freight consist (please forgive my heresy ).

EDIT: as long as it is Legacy

I remember when the I5 project was canceled at MTH.  At the time I couldn’t believe they couldn’t get the numbers with all the wacky NH fans out there. While it’s not my deal, I do think it’s time for a updated offering.

My earlier I5 crapped out. Not sure if the board failed. I need someone to look at it but I thought some repairers did not like to touch Weaver.

Anyone want to give it a look to repair?

@DMASSO posted:

My earlier I5 crapped out. Not sure if the board failed. I need someone to look at it but I thought some repairers did not like to touch Weaver.

Anyone want to give it a look to repair?

Bring it up, I’ll take a look.

The mention of correct passenger car consists jogged my memory. I know passenger trains are a little different when deciding as a purchase as a consumer. A special engine. Also requires special cars. Which equates to a lot of money.  I bought the first run of the Weaver I5. I also bought the first run of the Flyer cars. I’m guessing they were not yet announced as the engines came first. I like to research the prototype and found out I could run the Senator from Boston to Washington DC. All Pennsy equipment with NH motive power to NY City. Pennsy cars were plentiful and that’s what I went with.

I have 2 B&A Hudson’s. When the NH coaches became available I purchased them. A little research found out the B&A ran a train out of Boston also to NY City using NH equipment. Using it’s own trackage to Springfield then changing to NH motive power for the final leg to NY City. I have a video of the I 5 doing the changeover.

On my now modeled Rutland. The Rutland was not known for their passenger fleet. Rutland engines pulling NY Central cars on the Green Mountain Flyer. B&M cars were added at Rutland. Worked for me.

I know the thought of saving for that new engine and also for the correct cars is a huge cost today. But sometimes you can make it work with a little research.

I have a weaver I-5 second hand #1403, it has the script tender. I have also seen the tender with only new haven on it. The certificate from weaver, at least for that production run, was 60 something of 161. The TAS electronics in it are shot and there is little to no speed control using tmcc. I would be happy to see someone do a new run as I already have the bradley coaches. Atlas O has the bradley coaches and has done 2 runs. So the passenger cars are out there.

Growing up on a New Haven main line made me a NH fan.  When I first saw the Weaver I-5 at the Springfield show somewhere around 2012, I knew I really wanted one. Financially it wasn't in the cards at that time. A year and a half ago I obtained my first I-5 off Ebay . I took a chance because it said non -operational. At pretty much the same time, I purchased a Weaver Nickel Plate Berkshire. It had electronic issues. I sent it to George Galyo (GGG on the Forum). George reported he had solved the electronic issues but the loco ran mechanically very bad. He suggested he send it over to his friend Pat Norcross and the rest is history. You can see those repairs and modifications if you search here  under " How slow can a Weaver go". Pat describes what he did to make it run incredibly good in that thread. I then decided to have Pat rework the 3 each I-5's I had in similar fashion. Incidentally George and Pat work together on those things, George being strong on the electronic end.

My intention going to this great length here is to make sure Weaver engine owners know there is help for them when they have problems. A Forum friend Melgar told me he is leery to run his Weaver engines for fear of a problem and not being able to get parts now.   Two of my 3ea I-5's need/ed side rod replacements. Pat made new side rods as part of one engines upgrading. Pat has the ability to make most anything. I relate all this only for Weaver owners, and potential buyers to know you have a place to go to get anything repaired.  There are possibly others who can do what Pat (Harmon Shops) can do. I only have experience with him. I would encourage any one needing repairs, especially tough ones to at least check with Pat.  There is no reason to avoid Weaver because they are no longer in business. I am certainly enjoying mine.  Respectfully Submitted, Bill Park                   

I would buy one, if it had MTH digital system.

Weaver released these engines with TMCC capability. To the best of my knowledge, they never did release any with MTH DCS. I just purchased a used Weaver I-4 Pacific and it powered up fine with my Legacy control.  Bill

Bill, you're right that Weaver released them with TMCC. But they could be converted to DCS as Marty did for me. I don't know what else he did, but mine has worked fine.

Gerry

@C.Vigs Thanks for sharing those videos of your engine. That is definitely something. Some people don't seem to value what Weaver put into their models, I love what they had done. Some are just astonishing.

@Bill Park Yeah, Pat is definitely one of those guys that can solve the most complex of problems like it is just untying a know. I have seen George(GGG) mentioned a few times on the forum, and post as well, that was off of one of the topics Pat was on naturally.

One thing I am really curious about is the color. The two at York were a grey color, like a medium to a dark grey. Chris's looks black in the video. All the photos they look dark though except a few. Did they run these with two different colors as well as the NY, NH, & H to just New Haven name change on the tender? It would be interesting to see what the color or colors were as well as would it be able to be right if ever produced again?

Mine was on the cover of CTT. The March 2008 issue. The photo was shot by Fred Dole. Best photo I’ve ever seen of one. I worked on this engine numerous times and viewed it for years and never realized it was as detailed till I viewed the picture.