how much ballast do i need

I would guess it depends on just how much track you have.

also depends on how much track and sides of track you want covered.

"per 25' of track after putting down the underlayment"

Also, the brand of track will make a difference. For example, GarGraves requires more than Atlas due to the thickness (height) of the ties. Also, some bring ballast to the tops of ties, others leave it a little below - it all makes a difference.

 

Best way is to do a measured length using the technique you will be using and calculate from there.

 

Jim

OK, just what is "underlayment". I never heard of THAT.

I used Midwest cork roadbed under GG flex track.  The cork roadbed adds a nominal amount of ballast required because it must be covered. 

 

Also, consider blending a couple or more colors for the ballast. 

I just kept laying and buying from Dennis Brennan until done. 

A Lot!

I painted my mid west cork the color of the ballast so I don't use as much ballast. I got a quart of paint from Home Depot but I took some ballast with me so they could get a good match for me and I just do the sides. I use the rubber ballast from Brummy's.................Paul

Ballasting a layout with over 500' of track is an expensive proposition. That's why I make my own ballast from starter size chicken grit which is made from real granite. The color often is an off white ( which on some RR's is prototypical), but I like gray ballast better. I just put the stuff in a pail and toss in some medium gray latex paint to color it. Spread it out let it dry-done! I now spray my roadbed with dark flat brown paint anyway so the final ballast color is not critical. I can ballast my entire layout for about $15 -$20 worth of grit. That's a tremendous savings and music to my ears.

PER 25' ATLAS TRACK MEDIUM FINE BALLAST USING POUNDS OUNCES TONS WHATEVER HOW MUCH PER 25'

OVER THIS STUFF

I would like to add a suggestion to check out Dennis Brennan's "Better Ballast".   It's been my experience that the Woodland Scenics ballast leaves a powdery residue on the the ties which Dennis'  does not.  Plus if you tell him what type of track you have and how many feet which need ballasting he'll nail the amount you need to within a foot.

-Greg

If you have a hobby store nearby, I would say buy as you go.  I had a 4' by 10' O27 layout which required 4 of those containers.  The stupid thing that I did was buy all the containers.  Its much cheaper to buy one container and get the rest of it in the large bags.  But I was "train high" at the time, thinking the layout was nearly complete, and it clouded my judgement.

HW, you're on the Hi-Rail Forum, NOT the Real Trains forum.  And caps are used to scream here.  Are you screaming?

Yes, at certain times. What's it you?

 

Were you screaming in the reply above?  I ask only because using caps usually means screaming.  As for what does your screaming/not screaming mean to me, not much.

 

Also, if you had an email address in your profile my question would have been asked off-forum.

HEY I AM NOT UP ON THE COMPUTER NUANCES,  I NEED THE BIG PRINT SO I CAN SEE IT AND THAT IS ALL, JUST 70 YR OLD EYEBALLS THAT DO NOT WORK ALL THAT WELL.

I CUT MY TEETH ON A UGC47 TELETYPE IT ONLY PRINTED ONE WAY

AND JUST BECAUSE ON SOME DATE IN THE PAST SOME COMPUTER GEEK SAID THAT WRITING IN CAPS IS 'YELLING' WELL SO WHAT, IT IS VERY SIMPLE IF MY TYPE USING UPPER CASE IS INSENSITIVE TO YOU IT IS VERY SIMPLE  DONT READ IT.  I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THAT WORLD,  THE WORLD THAT USES LOL AND WHATEVER,  SOME GUY OR WOMAN SOME TIME MADE UP THESE RULES, WELL FINE, IF YOU WANT SOME OLD GEEK TO TELL YOU HOW TO LIVE AND HOW TO TYPE HAVE AT IT,   IT IS NOT FOR ME I LIVE MY LIFE THE WAY I WANT TO, AND PRESCRIBE TO NOTHING BUT BEING HONEST AND FORTHCOMING, THAT IS MY WORLD NOT ACRONYMS CREATED FOR A 2" SCREEN

 

 

lower case i have to squint and make spelling errors to easily

went to profile and email address there? i have no idea why you did not see it

man i wish i had one close by, nearest one is 150 miles

looked them up and bookmarked the site, thanks.  and not to insult woodland scenics

they put out good products but man they are really 'pricey'

I find it funny that no one has actually answered the original question!! No wonder the guy's yelling. From people who don't understand that he's asking how much ballast for 25' of track to others who are describing how they do it or are fixating on the word 'underlayment' instead of roadbed. Jeez. Just answer the question, please. I can understand pelago's frustration.  I haven't ballasted my layout yet, BTW, so I'm curious too. (Gargraves track on Homabed.)

As has been posted, some questions don't have simple answers. Different people will use different amounts depending on techniques used, the desired look of the ballasted track, the particle size of the ballast used, brand of ballast, etc.

 

Some people ballast right up to the tops of ties while others prefer to have more tie exposed. Smaller particles will require more ballast by weight. Add to that the factor that different brands of ballast have different densities - some are actual rock while others are crushed walnut shells, rubber particles, etc.

 

As has also been posted, a supplier like Dennis Brennan has a good handle on average amounts needed for his particular ballast.

 

Even if I had experience with that particular combo of Atlas track, WS ballast, and roadbed, what I use may be very different from what he will need. Some things in this hobby just require experimentation. The forum doesn't always have all the answers.

 

Jim

OK, here is how we did it on our layout, now that I'm finally beginning to understand the original question:

 

1) We glued down the Vinyl "road bed" first (the recycled vinyl stuff from the company that is now called "Flexxbed").

 

2) We then glued down the Atlas O, solid nickel silver, track and switches. Wherever we had to use screws in order to hold the curves in place, the screws were removed later, after the glue was set.

 

3) I then spray painted ALL THE TRACK, in order to weather it. Then cleaned the paint off the tops of the rails.

 

4) We then started spreading regular dried sand box sand (50 pounds from Home Depot for under $4 a bag), prior to spreading the expensive Woodland Scenics ballast (Main line ballast was a mixture of 2 #B1389 Course Gray, to one #B1390 Course Black). By using lots of cheap sand box sand first, a lot less of that expensive Woodland Scenics Course Ballast will be required.

 

5) After the ballasted areas look the way you want it to look, using liberal amounts of very cheap 70% isopropal alcohol, applied with plastic pipettes, moisten thoroughly all the ballast, without disturbing the appearance.

 

6) Using Matt Medium (I purchased this product by the gallon from Scenic Express), thinned to the consistency of whole milk, liberally apply the thinned Matt Medium, using another pipette. Again, being careful not to disturb the appearance of the ballast surface.

 

 

After the Matte Medium sets, your ballast will be hard, yet it will still appear just as "loose" as when you spread it. Also, the Matt Medium will act as a sound deadener, since unlike white glue products that dry hard, the Matt Medium always stays every so slightly resilient.

 

I also purchased ALL my scenic materials (ballast, cinders, coal, and Matt Medium) from Scenic Express, as they have the best prices and excellent fast service. 

I'll agree with the other posts to simply call Dennis Brennan. I did my layout with GG and the Midwest cork also. It's been a while so I don't recall. I did a how to ballast article for OGR but was never published. Dennis has perfected the application and weathering process that is so real! I would get it from him in the 5LB bags. roughly I though one pound did around 3' of track. so you would need 2 bags.

 

As others have posted how much you need will depend on how far out you ballast on your shoulders and how high you go in the ties. Modern track machinery would have the stone right to the top of the tie and a minimum of 1' of shoulder. more in fill areas. In the older days when stone was applied by hand the stone would only go about 3/4 of the way up the tie. it is a preference. I would break it up so the rail doesn't look so typical. The uniformity starts looking boring so break it up.

 

Jamie

"We then glued down the Atlas O, solid nickel silver, track and switches. Wherever we had to use screws in order to hold the curves in place, the screws were removed later, after the glue was set."

NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WOULD I HAVE THOUGHT OF GLUING

THE TRACK DOWN!         

just did not think in that method. does it ever work loose? does it come up if it has to come up (can not think of a reason to remove other than to re do completely)

 

spray painted the track

again blew my mind doing that, i am so worried about keeping contact surface clean would have never thought of that  what did you use??

My track is also only heald down by the glued ballast. It's holding just fine well over 5 years for me. throw the switches several times while the glue is wet and minimize hitting the throw bars. You want to glue it down so the ballast wont get sucked up into the locomotive gears and or rail head causing derailments.

 

Yes paint the rail no problem. while it is wet clean off the top. After it dries hit it with a Scotch bright pad. I nave no issues with DCS or TMCC signals getting through just fine.

 

Doing it using the Dennis process, will look very real and very labor saving process.

 

Put plastic down under the layout if there are finished floors some will leak through.

 

I did a 20'x 20' layout and a 40'x 28' layout no problems at all.

 

Jamie

 

 

Posted by HW & Pledge:

 

spray painted the track

again blew my mind doing that, i am so worried about keeping contact surface clean would have never thought of that  what did you use??

 

RustOleum "Charcoal Green", which is now no longer available. However, any olive green looking color works very well for weathered rail, for the "steam era", which I model.

 

 

I now use RustOleum camouflage which is a great dirty highlighter of the rails.  I lightly wipe the top of the rails with a rag sprayed with PB Blaster which is a WD-40 type product.  After spraying the rails I quickly wipe the tops off with a rag.  Easy steps and it looks great.

GO TO A LOCAL BUILDING SUPPLY AND GET A 5-GALLON PAIL OF ROOFING GRANULES. ITS CHEAP ABOUT $30 AND IT WILL GO A LONG WAY

Back to all capital letters again?

Steve,

What building supply store on L.I. has this? None of the big box stores do, and I don't know of any roofing suppliers that sell granules. Thanks.

-Tom

 

edit: sorry, I also failed to answer the original question posted! Having never ballasted track before (but planning on doing so in the future) I have no idea

I ballasted Gargraves Wood Tie Flextrack on cork roadbed up to even with top of ties and it took about a pound of Brennan's Better Ballast per 2-1/2 feet. The sides are not "dressed" in the first photo below but are the final step after wet out and application of glue mix.

 

 

"Back to all capital letters again?""

what is all this nonsense about capital letters,  one would think, THAT LIFE IS SHORT ENOUGH TO NOT WORRY ABOUT IT IN REALITY WHO CARES I SURE DON'T

CAP LETTERS, ITALICIZED, BOLD

is it really such a big deal  just live and enjoy what ya got cuz tomorrow it could all be gone and most of us with it Me, i aint getting any younger  my cardiologist said that repair

(five bypass) is good for 10-15 years   15 years ago, and someone wants me to worry about whether or not i type in caps

sheeeeeeeeesh

I have been buying ballast for 2 years and am still running out.You need a sh%@ load of it.Also pelage..well said!Nick

"I ballasted Gargraves Wood Tie Flextrack on cork roadbed up to even with top of ties and it took about a pound of Brennan's Better Ballast per 2-1/2 feet. The sides are not "dressed" in the first photo below but are the final step after wet out and application of glue mix."

I like that gadjet you got for smoothing out the ballast, great idea, looks easy enough to fabricate,  what glue mix do you like for keeping the ballast in place  my last layout i got a little heavy on the woodland scenics spray mix and probably a bit too high, but i used a paint brush to smooth it out, your thingy thing there looks great

(had to go back and correct four words for spelling cuz this type is so small)

my little hobo village

 

 

 

 

I spray with isopropyl alcohol then apply a 1/3x2/3 Elmers glue and water mix.You can get Elmers in 1 gallon jugs at Lowes for 15 bucks.Nick

 

All the things that you consider "social norms" were arbitrarily determined by someone at some time throughout history. What you consider polite. What you consider common courtesy. What you consider modest/decent or immodest/indecent. Some "old geek" or whatever decided that was the way it would be and you grew up accepting it as gospel without question.

 

Online is a form of socialization that has developed in your lifetime. As a new form of socialization, it developed its own set of norms.

 

Choose to accept the norms or not, it is your decision. However do not get your knickers in a twist when people call you on your choice to not accept.

 

Your attitude is akin to saying, "I refuse to wear pants," in a previous era, like the 1950's. Walk around town naked from the waist down, and see how long you go before someone yells at you to, "Put some pants on, you pervert!"

Folks please..... when you gwr to sit across the table from someone you know, it's easy to misinterpret a gesture or tone of voice. In a forum, thumb typing, while Im waiting for my son and his buddy to finish skiing... yojr lucky I'm evem a little coherent.
Stressing caps is a waste, because you have no idea, whether I want to scream AT YOU, or if I'm just a tad FRUSTRATEd and I hoped my fellow forumites would be supportive, OR IF I JUST DOUBKETAPPED THE CAPLOCK BUTTON.
in any of these scenarios YOURE READING im watching familiea interact and blowong some time. On a really cool note, the boys just walked up. Donr be offended, but Im bot gonna finish my diatribe.

Note to the original poster. Thank you. I have learned a bit about ballast today