How to plan your benchwork for future expansion

Tom, we feel your pain and we’ve been there; and continue to dwell. You are getting ahead of yourself so take a deep breath. My suggestions would be to spend time in the room and begin to envision; without making yourself crazy. Then start reading. My first recommendation would be, “Building a Layout “ by Jim Barrett. Next would be , “Realistic Layouts “ by CJ Riley. There are many other good books but these will give you a good foundation. Since you are in Maryland there is the York Train Show at the end of April. Plus you will get a lot of good insights from the folks on this forum.

Thank you. It is certainly easy to wrapped around the axel when planning a layout... at least for me. I am just anxious and excited to actually have a space to build a layout. I have dreamed about it for quite a while now. The room hasn't been built yet, hopefully it will be finished this summer so I can spend the winter starting the layout. I have some time to plan. I am just having a time trying to figure out where to start.....

I particularly liked the Riley book because it made me look at the outdoors differently and then in contemplating the scenery. The Barrett book is an outstanding book because it starts with an empty room and progresses from there. It’s an easy read with good photos. You have a lot of fun ahead of you..

Jay... I hope you mean real fun and not that sarcastic type of fun.

Is there a "Right" size to start with or an "Ideal" size I should be trying to stay within for benchwork... or total layout size? I would like to have a turntable and classification yard.... I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew, if that makes any sense? Thanks!

Tom

I would start by learning about myself and what I want or like in a layout and how I would want to operate it.  If you do not know, you need to visit or study layouts and see if you can learn what you like.

Would you be happy letting the trains run in loops and lay back and watch?  How about wanting to run trains in various routes, or switch cars or engines to different trains, or operate accessories like gantry cranes, cattle and milk cars?  Are you into bookkeeping and would enjoy planing train schedules and operating trains to keep a schedule?  Is this layout for mainly you or do you want to share it with family and visitors or join a train club and have the members visit and operate it and you visit theirs or the clubs?  Would you want to make videos and share them on Utube for bragging rights?  Will you like the building of the layout or like getting it done in a year or two and then just operate, share and enjoy?

Those questions should lead you to the possibilities that are available and if you have favorites.  Thn you will know what operations and functions you should plan to build in your new Layout.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

I would start by learning about myself and what I want or like in a layout and how I would want to operate it.  If you do not know, you need to visit or study layouts and see if you can learn what you like.

Would you be happy letting the trains run in loops and lay back and watch?  How about wanting to run trains in various routes, or switch cars or engines to different trains, or operate accessories like gantry cranes, cattle and milk cars?  Are you into bookkeeping and would enjoy planing train schedules and operating trains to keep a schedule?  Is this layout for mainly you or do you want to share it with family and visitors or join a train club and have the members visit and operate it and you visit theirs or the clubs?  Would you want to make videos and share them on Utube for bragging rights?  Will you like the building of the layout or like getting it done in a year or two and then just operate, share and enjoy?

Those questions should lead you to the possibilities that are available and if you have favorites.  Thn you will know what operations and functions you should plan to build in your new Layout.

Charlie

There are no local clubs for me to belong too or invite over, so I guess this is just for me and my family, though my daughter is no longer interested in trains. I would definitely like at least 2 mainlines that allow me to run trains and be able to reverse their direction and to allow switching between the mainlines. I would like to have a siding or 2 and a classification yard and turntable area. I would like the mainlines to be interesting so I would like more than just an oval, but not overly complicated. I would like to have an elevated section of track so I can run trains up an incline and have the ability to have bridges and have trains going over and under each other. I would also like a tunnel or two with mountain terrain. I’m no good on camera and YouTube bragging rights mean little. I want a layout that I can have at least trains running the first year and then spend the rest of the time enjoying building up scenery and buildings etc…. I don’t know if that is what your getting at…but that is kinda what’s in my head.

Tom

Tom, Charlie has you on the right track. So read, view, explore, and become an “imagineer”. And, it is really genuine fun.

More questions to ask yourself: Both first and last -- Givens & Druthers. Then refine what you want. Are you a looper? Do you want to do switching? primarily? Are you planning on a post war operating layout with lots of accessories? Are you planning on more of a model railroad? If so how highly detailed? An actual or imaginary short line, or segment of a larger railroad, again real or imaginary? The topography: Desert Southwest, Rocky Mtns., Plains, Industrial, Rural Northeast, Coastal, Congested Urban? etc.?? Read and research (The Gorre & Daphetid, Lorell Joiner's Great Southern, John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern, and some of the great ones here). Don't be afraid to take HO ideas and plans doubling them in size for O. Then back to Givens & Druthers. Example --"turntable with whisker tracks, and a classification yard" If that's a must have, get out your tape measure. Givens & Druthers. Finally and most important - have fun!

@modeltrainsparts posted:

More questions to ask yourself: Both first and last -- Givens & Druthers. Then refine what you want. Are you a looper? Do you want to do switching? primarily? Are you planning on a post war operating layout with lots of accessories? Are you planning on more of a model railroad? If so how highly detailed? An actual or imaginary short line, or segment of a larger railroad, again real or imaginary? The topography: Desert Southwest, Rocky Mtns., Plains, Industrial, Rural Northeast, Coastal, Congested Urban? etc.?? Read and research (The Gorre & Daphetid, Lorell Joiner's Great Southern, John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern, and some of the great ones here). Don't be afraid to take HO ideas and plans doubling them in size for O. Then back to Givens & Druthers. Example --"turntable with whisker tracks, and a classification yard" If that's a must have, get out your tape measure. Givens & Druthers. Finally and most important - have fun!

Definitely a lot to process. Thank you for the advice! I am looking for more of a model railroad. I have no postwar anything in my collection currently. I like my scenery to be set around my home in MD so I like to model the mid Atlantic regions Appalachian and blue ridge mountains. I have a lot of Chessie and CSX motive power. The name of my future railroad is the Chesapeake and Southern and it is definitely an imaginary line.

Godale3

Others have brought up one very important item I did not mention above and that is do you want a more classical post war "more toy like" layout with O or O27 sectional track and used post war and MPC type trains at a rather low cost or do you want newer, "closer to scale" large radius curves, fast track or gargraves track and $600 to say $2000 locomotives and the thousands of dollars this type of layout will require?

This question is one of the first you must answer and it will make a difference in how much you will spend and how serious you want to get into model trains.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Godale3

Others have brought up one very important item I did not mention above and that is do you want a more classical post war "more toy like" layout with O or O27 sectional track and used post war and MPC type trains at a rather low cost or do you want newer, "closer to scale" large radius curves, fast track or gargraves track and $600 to say $2000 locomotives and the thousands of dollars this type of layout will require?

This question is one of the first you must answer and it will make a difference in how much you will spend and how serious you want to get into model trains.

Charlie

I definitely want something more scale than toy like. I have been buying Lionel Legacy and MTH PS 3 locomotives as well as rolling stock since about 2004. I have 3 180 watt power house supplies and both the Legacy system and DSS equipment... .really all I need is a table and some track to get going... not to mention scenery supplies.

Mianne benchwork can be added on to easily, modified and in some cases disassembled and relocated.

L-girder benchwork is a tried and true method.  Relatively inexpensive (although nothing made with lumber is cheap right now), lightweight, sturdy, and easy to expand.

@Mallard4468 posted:

L-girder benchwork is a tried and true method.  Relatively inexpensive (although nothing made with lumber is cheap right now), lightweight, sturdy, and easy to expand.

I'm glad you guys brought this up... I had not put a bunch of thought into what to make the benchwork out of. The room will be purpose built for a layout so being modular isn't important... unless it needs to be? What kind of wood is sufficient to build the benchwork and do you recommend putting something on top like homosote or would you guys just lay the roadbed on the top of the bench minus the homosote?

Godale03

Sounds like you have a good start on what you want your layout to be.

Bench work is easy to build if you are a little handy with a circular saw and nails or screws.  The cost of the fancy pre-made bench work is high for something is not even seen.  Frames of 2 x 4, 1x 6 for edges, if you have them, and low grade 1/2 inch plywood, this should be plenty strong.  I walk on mine when on the floor for 35 years.  You can find less costly wood from the trash at the street, HD, Lowes and by sorting through the cheap grades lumber looking for straight and low knot pieces.  Add homosote to make it quieter.

You will need the money spent on fancy bought bench work to buy the more costly modern locomotives and track and switches.

If your are a little more handy you can build any size homemade turntable with a pit.  I show how I built mine, 44 years ago for $10 or so.  See link below

https://ogrforum.com/...ra-027-layout?page=1

There is a table of contents, on the start of page 1, listing where to find how I built the whole layout, track plan, bench work, active touch control panel, homemade round house, kit bashed and automated accessories, etc.

Charlie

What will you be using for your HVAC?

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Godale03

Sounds like you have a good start on what you want your layout to be.

Bench work is easy to build if you are a little handy with a circular saw and nails or screws.  The cost of the fancy pre-made bench work is high for something is not even seen.  Frames of 2 x 4, 1x 6 for edges, if you have them, and low grade 1/2 inch plywood, this should be plenty strong.  I walk on mine when on the floor for 35 years.  You can find less costly wood from the trash at the street, HD, Lowes and by sorting through the cheap grades lumber looking for straight and low knot pieces.  Add homosote to make it quieter.

You will need the money spent on fancy bought bench work to buy the more costly modern locomotives and track and switches.

If your are a little more handy you can build any size homemade turntable with a pit.  I show how I built mine, 44 years ago for $10 or so.  See link below

https://ogrforum.com/...ra-027-layout?page=1

There is a table of contents, on the start of page 1, listing where to find how I built the whole layout, track plan, bench work, active touch control panel, homemade round house, kit bashed and automated accessories, etc.

Charlie

Thank you! I will check it out!

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

What will you be using for your HVAC?

Most likely a mini split unit.

@Choo Choo Charliee

1.-  nails...

2.-  and low grade 1/2 inch plywood, this should be plenty strong...

3.-  Add homosote to make it quieter.

Opinion:

1.-  NO.  Nails loosen and split wood.  Modifications would be more difficult.  Construction screws, not drywall screws recommended.

2.-  NO.  Decking strength is not the issue.  Surface integrity is the goal.  Cheap plywood susceptible to warping and delaminating.

3.-  YES!  Homasote is an excellent path to sound attenuation.

Quality benchwork is the foundation for a long term trouble free layout.

It would help us to help you if you could post pictures of the room you intend to build in and also a sketch with some dimensions.

I'm with Tom, never use nails, always pre-drill and screw things together. It's a little more work and time but it will be stronger and more stable.  In my opinion, homasote is a must along with decent foam roadbed.

Up until this past month I would suggest sourcing some of the multi-layered birch plywood. But the prices on this have increased dramatically and now the supply is cut off. There is a shop grade birch plywood that is available that could also work. Depending on what tools you have available you can rip plywood into 1x3 or 1x4 and build with those. It is a little more work but you won't have to deal with selecting from twisted, warped lumber.

Anyway, there is a lot of work to do before you get to an expansion.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

It would help us to help you if you could post pictures of the room you intend to build in and also a sketch with some dimensions.

I'm with Tom, never use nails, always pre-drill and screw things together. It's a little more work and time but it will be stronger and more stable.  In my opinion, homasote is a must along with decent foam roadbed.

Up until this past month I would suggest sourcing some of the multi-layered birch plywood. But the prices on this have increased dramatically and now the supply is cut off. There is a shop grade birch plywood that is available that could also work. Depending on what tools you have available you can rip plywood into 1x3 or 1x4 and build with those. It is a little more work but you won't have to deal with selecting from twisted, warped lumber.

Anyway, there is a lot of work to do before you get to an expansion.

I can provide a sketch with dimensions once I get home from work. I would have to scan it in first. I do not have pictures of the room yet, as it has yet to be built. So far we just have an agreement on price from the builder. I am hoping to have the room ready to start bench work by the fall or early winter so I have the entire farming off season to work on it. My goal is to have track laid by Christmas?  I know that is a monumental task, but it would be cool to be able to at least run trains for the holiday family that will be in town. That is why I want to start planning now, and maybe I will have a table built and enough track to get started. I just purchased "Building a Layout" it should be here by Friday. I have been advised that is a terrific book to get started with a layout for the first time. My one concern for the top of the table, is that there is not a lumber supply that has any Homosote in my area... within many miles. Is this stuff really hard to find?

Tom

As your room is being built don’t let the builder throw away any scrap lumber or foam board. It can always be repurposed. Also, if you have room to store it, perhaps he can get you his price for lumber and have it delivered with the materials.

@Godale03 posted:

I'm glad you guys brought this up... I had not put a bunch of thought into what to make the benchwork out of. The room will be purpose built for a layout so being modular isn't important... unless it needs to be? What kind of wood is sufficient to build the benchwork and do you recommend putting something on top like homosote or would you guys just lay the roadbed on the top of the bench minus the homosote?

The L-girders are made from 1x4 and 1x2 - glued and screwed - very strong.  Legs can be 2x2.  Get a book showing Linn Westcott's system.  IMO, a lot of layout benchwork is overbuilt - 2x4s and 3/4" plywood are overkill unless you'll be walking on it.  Don't glue the cross-pieces to the L-girders, and don't glue the plywood to the cross-pieces - screws are sufficient for this, and it makes it easier to disassemble and reuse the components when you want to make changes.

As soon as you have a general idea of the space, you can make some L-girders and leg sets in advance so you'll get a running start when the space is ready.

Re homasote - discussions regarding plywood / foam / homasote can take on a religious fervor.  I bought my homasote at Menards several years ago, but that's not an option for you AFAIK.  If you want it, perhaps Home Depot or Lowe's can order it.  I'm not sure that I'd mess with it again, but lots of people are very happy with it.  Rather than reignite that debate here, I suggest searching for previous threads where it's been discussed.

Buy this book:

https://shop.aer.io/OGaugeRail.../9781736150009-10883

-Greg

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

As your room is being built don’t let the builder throw away any scrap lumber or foam board. It can always be repurposed. Also, if you have room to store it, perhaps he can get you his price for lumber and have it delivered with the materials.

Thats a great idea! Thank you!!

@Greg Houser posted:

Buy this book:

https://shop.aer.io/OGaugeRail.../9781736150009-10883

-Greg

Its funny you mention this... I will have it in my hands on Friday! I can't wait! It comes highly recommended.

@Mallard4468 posted:

The L-girders are made from 1x4 and 1x2 - glued and screwed - very strong.  Legs can be 2x2.  Get a book showing Linn Westcott's system.  IMO, a lot of layout benchwork is overbuilt - 2x4s and 3/4" plywood are overkill unless you'll be walking on it.  Don't glue the cross-pieces to the L-girders, and don't glue the plywood to the cross-pieces - screws are sufficient for this, and it makes it easier to disassemble and reuse the components when you want to make changes.

As soon as you have a general idea of the space, you can make some L-girders and leg sets in advance so you'll get a running start when the space is ready.

Re homasote - discussions regarding plywood / foam / homasote can take on a religious fervor.  I bought my homasote at Menards several years ago, but that's not an option for you AFAIK.  If you want it, perhaps Home Depot or Lowe's can order it.  I'm not sure that I'd mess with it again, but lots of people are very happy with it.  Rather than reignite that debate here, I suggest searching for previous threads where it's been discussed.

I've noticed that trend no matter what forum I am in... from RC cars (A hobby from my youth) to Mustangs ( I have a 2018 P1 in my garage) to now model trains (I wish I have gotten on here and asked more questions earlier) I have found that topics can definitely take on lives of their own and there are more opinions than hours in the day... but after a while, you read enough you start to notice a trend or commonality with the opinions that you can usually get a good consensus of the way to go. That being said, I have heard some folks swear by homosote... I have watched the video where Mr. Muffin says "this is not your grandpas layout" as he says Homosote is not necessary these days. I would love to know why, and what the alternative is if there is any? I mean Homosote seems to make laying track and scenery much easier and even since it is softer than wood, can even help with creating interesting terrain on a layout. So I would really like the input.. .but certainly don't need to start a holy war.   That being said... since Menards is not my area of the country and the local HD or Lowes don't carry it here, Im not really sure what my options are. I mean I know I can order it, but it was close to $50 a sheet the last I looked to order it from one of the big box guys. At that price, I have to ask if it is worth the cost, considering the plywood top will be a bit pricey with the cost of lumber currently.

Tom

@Godale03 posted:

...that being said, I have heard some folks swear by homosote... I have watched the video where Mr. Muffin says "this is not your grandpas layout" as he says Homosote is not necessary these days. I would love to know why, and what the alternative is if there is any? I mean Homosote seems to make laying track and scenery much easier and even since it is softer than wood, can even help with creating interesting terrain on a layout. So I would really like the input.. .but certainly don't need to start a holy war.

...I know I can order it, but it was close to $50 a sheet the last I looked to order it from one of the big box guys. At that price, I have to ask if it is worth the cost, considering the plywood top will be a bit pricey with the cost of lumber currently.

Don't count on carving, bending, or shaping homasote to make scenery.

Even given the current cost of materials, $50/sheet sounds a bit high - Menards currently shows $26 for 1/2"x4x8 - but since it's special order...

Regarding Homasote - Google: http://www.homasote.com/wheretobuy

As an FYI I stay away from the big box places like Home Depot and patronize the smaller local lumber yards. Although both H.D. & Lowe's are in the local area I find the locals seem to have or be able to get what I want in less than a week and often do millwork at no or minimal charges. Examples: they ripped 2x6's into 2x3's for train table legs. 2x4's are fine but overkill and were more $$ than 2x6's. When i built my deck i wanted western red cedar - no problem - 3 day delivery.

@modeltrainsparts posted:

Regarding Homasote - Google: http://www.homasote.com/wheretobuy

As an FYI I stay away from the big box places like Home Depot and patronize the smaller local lumber yards. Although both H.D. & Lowe's are in the local area I find the locals seem to have or be able to get what I want in less than a week and often do millwork at no or minimal charges. Examples: they ripped 2x6's into 2x3's for train table legs. 2x4's are fine but overkill and were more $$ than 2x6's. When i built my deck i wanted western red cedar - no problem - 3 day delivery.

Thank you for the advice. I do have access to a couple of local places that are still family owned and operated. I will check those guys out first.

Tom

I just paid $40 a sheet for homasote 3 weeks ago at Home Depot in northeast PA. If you can find it, I’d suggest it like others have for sound purposes.

Books I found interesting when planning my layout were:

101 track plans

Realistic model railroad operation

They have lots of content to get you thinking of the possibilities.

@Richizzle07 posted:

I just paid $40 a sheet for homasote 3 weeks ago at Home Depot in northeast PA. If you can find it, I’d suggest it like others have for sound purposes.

Thank you!

@Joe K posted:

Books I found interesting when planning my layout were:

101 track plans

Realistic model railroad operation

They have lots of content to get you thinking of the possibilities.

I will check it out! Thank you!

Keep in mind that you can cut the homasote and just put it under your mainlines.

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

Keep in mind that you can cut the homasote and just put it under your mainlines.

At 40$ a sheet I may just do that.

Homasote is $33 per sheet from my local lumber yard. Home Depot carries it but they seem to tear it up and haven't caught on that it doesn't like rain dripping on it.   A sheet of 1/2" birch plywood costs $80, 3/4" is now $117.

The idea is to dampen vibrations that transmit sound. Extruded foam is useless for this purpose, but plenty of landscaping uses. Homasote is made of pressed paper, takes paint well, is fire retardant. It mills easily but you do get a good amount of fine dust.

I have a mix of cookie cutter and some sections completely covered by plywood. I notice that if the homasote doesn't cover all of the plywood it will be less effective at stopping that drumming effect on the plywood. In some of those areas I have gone back and added more homasote cut to fit. Any of the liquid nails products will glue it down firmly.

I haven't tried it but you can also buy dampening material, dyna-mat, from auto parts stores and stick that to the underside of the plywood.

@Godale03 posted:

At 40$ a sheet I may just do that.

Unless you're using track that includes the "roadbed", like Fastrack, consider cork roadbed.