How to test battery question

I would try a 9 volt battery in your engine see it still does it and if i was you i would put a BCR in it then you will never have to worry about battery. http://www.jandwelectronics.com/index.htm

Easiest way is to cut power to track and see how long sounds continue.

A few years ago I made this box to test 3 volt boards, 5 volt boards, 9 volt battery, batteries in DCS remote, and test leads to probe batteries hard to get at in PS-1 locomotives.  I installed a light and switch so I can put a load on the battery I am testing.   I use this almost every day but still have my model 179 Fluke meter.

It is almost certainly not a battery issue. The symptoms are all wrong.

Yo test the battery, start the engine up in conventional or under DCS, making sounds. Immediately turn off track power and count seconds. If sounds persist for 6-7 seconds, the battery is OK.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Kerrigan,

   Replace the battery with a BCR and be done with batteries in your P2 engines.

I have not had a problem in years, the BCR's seem to last forever.

PCRR/Dave

Kerrigan, are both smoke units running off your PS2 board or are they running off track power from the original PS1 configuration?  If they are running off your board, a defective smoke fan motor may be your issue.

Are other locomotives running OK from the remote you are using?

Barry, your test will work but I am a meter guy.  You have seen my tester, it is foolproof.  I have most of the parts to do one for you.

Marty,

Testing as I described is quick and easy. Testing with a meter, while more exact, requires opening up the engine.

Regardless, any time you want to build a meter for me, feel free to do so!  

I will always take the correct route.  A few minutes extra is better than powering up a locomotive with a crappy battery.  With later DCS, I just plug in my tester.  We have different thoughts on this.  I am not a fan of quick and easy when it comes to working with expensive electronics.  I will not work on anything that has the old white battery. 

I have a question related to charging the battery. 

If I haven't used an engine in a few years and want to charge the battery before using it, how long do I charge it for?  A few hours, overnight? Been wondering about this for a while now.  Thanks GUYZ in advance.

laz1957-

that is one thing I have never seen in print...the exact time needed to cbarge a PS-2 battery appropriately.  I have a charger from MTH, plug into wall, plug the wire under the engine and let it set for 12-14 hours.  Do the test before and after as Barry says to see if it improves.

if and when you need a new Battery get an appropriate BCR to replace the battery with.  Remember to add power to the track to charge the BCR for 30 seconds or more before starting the engine.  I hear if you want to replace the sound file in the engine you will have to swap the BCR out with the battery during the procedure, but that is it, the BCR works fine...each time...and will outlast me!

Thanks GEORGE, I have the same charger but don't know the time.  I will be switching out the batteries for BCRs in the future.

Kerrigan,  Since this was a PS-2 Upgrade ( I think I remember you posting about it) it has a 2.4V battery not 9V as mentioned.  Barry's test will work, as will Marty's test.  If you don't have a meter you can plug a bulb on the battery and see how it does. If the bulb goes immediately out or dim the battery is not holding it's 2.5V under load.

I have seen batteries that are dead and approach a short effect the engine.  The battery drags down the 5V regulator that operates the PS-2.  I have also seen smoke fans do this as Marty stated.  Same principle.

So the easy first test is turn smoke off.  The second test would be to disconnect the battery and see how it runs under DCS.  Won't retain any memory, but should clear up your symptoms of flickering lights and such.  If neither clear this up, something else is at issue.  Either engine wiring or the boards.   G

I thought the MTH charger instructions talked to this.  But 8.4V batteries are 12-16hrs and the 2.4V batteries about 4-6hrs.  G

As I sit here with my morning coffee and read these posts, thought occurs to me on how to make a battery tester cheaply.  Harbor Freigt has cheap meters have a position to test 1.5 and 9 volt batteries under load.  If one were to make up harnesses with tips to fit the charging ports, one could test both types, with loco not powered up.  Proper readings for 2.4 and 8.4 batteries could be ascertained by testing a battery known to be good and fully charged.

The only real way to test a battery is under load.  If I have some doubts about one of these batteries, I charge it up fully, and then apply a load and see how long it takes to discharge.

Key word is LOAD.  I have seen batteries that measure good and as soon as I introduce the lightbulb into the mix with the load switch, the readings crash.  If a battery has a good reading and stays the same with the load switch thrown, that is the battery you want for your engine. 

Ralph, I did an article a few years back in the Crossing Gate on this with the schematic.  I have recently installed an 8.4 V battery on the other end with connections for test leads.  I installed an extra port with a resistor to test LEDs.  If guys want to look at this, I will put up a few pictures tonight.  Every engine that comes to me gets the battery tested before any power is applied to the locomotive.

Correct, I put a lamp on the battery and set it next to me on the workbench.  When the bulb dims, I check to see how long it lasted and that gives me a good idea if the battery needs to go to the round file or back into the locomotive.

That would be great Marty. I might just build one.

Thanks,

Ralph

Correct, that is what I said after Marty several post ago. .  For folks without all the tools, it is easy to take a 6V bulb and plug it into the 2.4V battery.  If the battery is the issue the light will go out almost immediately.  If the battery is good, but under charged.  It can hold the light on at the reduced voltage.  But dead is dead even with the residual voltage present UNLOADED.  G

Marty, I for one don't keep copies of The Crossing Gate.  Would it be possible for you to please post the schematic, unless MTH would object for copyright reasons?

You often refer to the white battery.  I have a couple of 8.4s with the code J48 that are a pearl white.  Are these the batteries to which you refer?

On the general

subject of battery life vs. BCRs, I have been doing upgrades of my locos since the upgrade kits came out, and to date I have never had to replace a 2.4 volt battery.

Robert, I have a call into Andy on that subject.  I did the article so I do not think we will have an issue.  White batteries have not been made for a while.  Working on other peoples trains, I always put in a new green battery to take any battery issue out of the mix.  Lately I see a lot of PS1 with a green battery.  People try to power up with a 15 year old battery and when all goes bad, they then put in a new green battery.  Sort of like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped. 

We all want to help Kerrigan with his issue and hope to hear back from him regarding questions put to him.  Hopefully one of us can help him.

RJR, Andy said OK, I just talked to him.  I have a few repairs I have to finish to get back to Charlie but will get on it ASAP.

Those silver are after the white.  I see them occasionally too.  Not sure if they have approached that 5 year old point or not yet.  I do believe they we still NiCad.  G

I throw away the silver ones as well.  They may be good, but they're most likely on their last legs in any case.

Thanks for checking Marty.  I'll look forward to seeing the schematic.

GGG & GRJ, I actually have more 8.4 volt batteries than I'll ever use.  Most of my locos are either upgrades or have had their 5-volt boards replaced.  I think a 5-year life is a conservative estimate, based upon my experience.  But as a tech who gets paid for his work, I can understand that if a battery is that old you'll replace it to avoid a callback.  I'd do the same thing, since a client is paying to have something done right.  But I'm not about to buy new 8.4s since my stable of 8.4 locos is diminishing as boards fail.

Happy New Year to the 3 of you, and everyone else too.

For my own engines (PS-1) I get 4-5 years out of 8.4V so not very conservative.  I have seen 2.4V batteries that are original from 2005 and the engine still runs in Conventional.  G

I think the small cells in the 8.4V batteries deteriorate faster than the larger AA cells.

Plus 7 in series is also probably different then 2. More chances for a dead cell to kill the overall battery.  G

That screams out poor connections somewhere to me.  Perhaps as simple as a loose ground to the board.

Any hints how to track it down?  I don't see anything that is obviously loose.  Is there one spot on the board where the ground connects?

That's a slick tester, Marty!  I'll take one when you start selling them

I tried to get MTH to make them.  I got tied up tonight testing a Big Boy but will get the pictures done. 

On the side of your top board is a 7 pin plug.  Two wires are hot, two are ground to the board, and the others are for your tach reader.  Try pulling the plug and then reseating it.  Take your continuity meter and put on probe on chassis ground and the other end on the black wire on the 7 pin connector.  You should see continuity.  If you do not, let us know.

Kerrigan, Have you done a DCS signal test?   Does it do this in both conventional operation and DCS? 

If you can post some pictures of the wiring and lighting it may help.  Depending on how they handled lighting can determine what is wrong.

I would turn off all the smoke units, unplug the 4 and 8 pin connector and see if it still is jerky. That would eliminate your smoke units and NB and Marker lights.  Just head lights sound and motor.

You may have a motor going bad.  If you place it on blocks and power it does one motor start much sooner than the other?    G

Kerrigan, Does that DDA40X conversion also have a slave board mounted in it?

Marty,

Those are really neat test devices. That would be a great project to try and make myself and if you post details I will try it. If you post pictures would it be possible for you to also post the parts you used? Thank you for letting us in on the device.

I will try to do it later tonight.  I will post on the DCS section.