"I have not yet begun to fight"

Dave

   Take a look here.

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/8187868181041432

Bill

 The latest eye opener was entitled: "It's Dead, Jim".  This poor guy just let his engine run at slow speed, it died and now he's being told it needs to go back to MTH for repair because "something" happened at a 90 degree crossover.

Are all of the electronic gizmos THAT sensitive in these trains?

Is there some sort of electronic device that can be added to each locomotive that will aid in protecting these obviously delicate circuit boards?

How can I protect my investments?

IF you are worried like me, I would just stick conventional. I really don't think you are missing much in command and it's extra features than one is in the safety and security of moving the throttle- NOt to mention the dangers of having 18V constant across the rails. Like the freedom of a remote?, Well mth is rereleasing the Remote commander which allows remote control of two tracks on an MTH Z4k transformer so us conventional operators are on par with those TMCC guys & Gals!

Guys,

TVS's aren't an issue with DCS. Each TIU channel (all four) have TVS protection built-in.

I currently own about 86 PS2 engines of all vintages (5 volt and 3 volt boards) and a pair of PS3 engines, and have owned several dozen more PS2's. I have only had two (2) PS2 engines that were bad out of the box.

One was a 3 volt PS2 Premier P5a Box Cab that ran 5 minutes and died because a wire pinched during manufacturing shorted to ground and took out the audio amp. It was repaired under warranty a few years ago and has been fine ever since.

The other was a 5 volt PS2 RK R36 subway that had a defective battery charging circuit that drained the battery over 24 hours. The dealer swapped out the power car for a new one that has worked fine for many years.

My honest opinion is that most failures are self-inflicted by owners who open an engine to do things that they may not be qualified to do. The absolute best thing about MTH's new PS3 engines is that one never has to open up an engine to change the now nonexistent battery.

Yes, modern engines are more susceptible to problems due to short circuits, however, good track work, effective fuses or circuit breakers, and UPS's or surge strips for AC wall power are truly excellent protection against problems of that type. The TIU already has the TVS's covered.

Nothing to be afraid of. I have run command since the release of tmcc in 1995. I now run both legacy and dcs. It is very simple to hook up and to use. Give it a try and when you do you will never go back to conventional. If you having a problem there are allot of guys here that can help. It is by far the best way to run our modern trains. Btw I have never had a problem with my trains using either command system.   

"Sticking with conventional" changes nothing.  The conventional locomotives of current vintage have electronics for direction control, and for many manufacturers, include sound.  If you want to stay away from electronics, you will need a PW transformer and trains with mechanical E units.  But note: Mechanical "E" units can fail too!

Dave, please remember one very important item - forums don't by and large represent the hobby in regard to failure rates.   Only problems seem to migrate into posts, and that is helpful for folks to help each other diagnose problems.  Please don't come away from reading the forum and believe that all the trains with electronics fail - they don't.

quote:

Mechanical "E" units can fail too!

True, but parts are readily available, and the E units can be rebuilt.

Okay I'll admit I'm knocking on wood here.  We have a lot of locomotives of both types, not the cleanest wiring setup, do have fuses on the transformer leads which have never blown.

That said, we've not encountered any of these problems even though we've had some serious sparking derail incidents over the years, a dead spot on the double-crossover I've not been able to eliminate (some engines stall on it if not moving fast enough) and other "problems".

All our problems have been almost-immediate failures of something or other in brand new locomotives (then fixed under warranty), or parts falling off new rolling stock (think NCL consist truck straps) also fixed on warranty.

It's to be expected these things will occasionally, hopefully rarely,  occur.

I wouldn't myself be overly concerned everything is going to go up in smoke if you install these systems.  Wire it up the way found in Barry's book, fuse the power links, ground the phased transformers properly, complete the circuits and check everything twice.

If you do experience something that looks like a problem, shut it all down immediately and carefully trace out your system.

I usually wire up a piece at a time, check it out, then move on to the next.

Will be more easy if Lionel and MTH will use like other scale a same standard  (  lile DCC for 2 rail ) So we can choose a third manufacturer to replace a defective decoder or sound board. The problem is not to replace the defective part, the problem is to find them. I'm still waiting after 3 months a simple part, the dealer told me it can take 6 months as MTH are busy.....  In HO if a Digitrax decoder is not available, you just purchase a NCE 

* Note that I know you can't operate conventional engine on the same track as DCC, but at least they should have the same standard, it's stupid this war of patents, it'S Us who pay at the end. 

Well, I don't have the broad base that Barry does, but I have never had an engine fail for no reason. I have 2 PS-1 engines, and 5 PS-2s and I run all of them regularly for several years now.

While this forum is a lightning rod for the problems, there are a great many engines out there with no issues, you will never hear about them except perhaps in the Weekend Photo Fun threads.

Mayhaps we need a thred for good experiences. I have had new engines from both MTH and Lionel with only one problem from each. The Lionel had a loose brush wire, fixed myself. The MTH had a sound problem out of the box. Took it back to the LHS where I bought it and had it fixed while I waited. He is also an authorized MTH repair person. No charge.

Al

Kline, 3rdrail, Lionel, AtlasO and MTH PS2 engines on my layout.  I have never had a electronics issue with my engines.  Have had mechanical defects due to poor workmanship or shipping damage.

I find my 20 PS2 locos to be trouble free, even though I have derailments with many sparks.  If electronics is going to fail, it will usually happen very soon, while warranty is in effect. 

C.W. Burfle: Over the last 70 years, I had more trouble with the old mechanical e-units than I care to remember.  And the buzzing!!!!