In need of help please!

One early thing to consider is if you are in an area affected by building codes and inspections.  If so, you need to learn what they say about your issues.

@mike g. posted:

Hi guys and gals out there, I am in need of a little help. We just moved to Missouri and the house we bought came with a poll barn type shop. I am going to be building my train room in the back of the shop area, I have been told to frame in all the walls as if I was building a new house so I can run electrical and insulation in the walls. Well it is already insulated with 2" foam board with room for another 1 1/2" board, then I could sheetrock over that, I will put in rafters 16" OC then rolled insulation on top of that. I am asking for what you all think is a good way to go? One last thing is I am once again working on a small budget! LOL

Well, let me answer in two modes:

- The practical handyman in me agrees with your analysis -- the pole structure seems sound and reasonably square, and if you are generally satisfied with the current insulation (plus the overhead you're planning to add), I see no structural reason you can't just run the wiring and add insulation and sheetrock as you propose.

- OTOH, the retired real estate attorney in me suggests you consult with a licensed electrician and/or attorney to see what the local codes and practices require. Sure, you may be able to cobble together something that doesn't (literally!) become a barn burner, but if you or your heirs  want to be able to sell or refinance the property later, best to do the upgrade with all required permits, etc. What you propose may be just fine (or there may even be no applicable codes!), but better to find out up front IMHO.

I live near Kansas City, MO and I also have a farm (with pole barn) in Wisconsin.

Couple of things, (depending on what you want the look and feel of the space when done).

I would check on the codes, etc. as mentioned. Because this is an out-building, the codes will be slightly different than a main residence.

Plan for some type of heating/cooling system.  The temperature in a pole barn can get rather hot in the summer.  I realize you have insulation, but take a look just the same. You will need cooling, so a split system may be the way to go. The cooling will do a couple of things.  Help lower the humidity and make it comfortable place to enjoy during the summer.  You have to control the humidity or else you will have issues.  The winters in MO can get cold.  So you will need some type of heating.

You may need to put a floor in on top of the concrete floor.  As is, the concrete floor will act as a heat sync.  That is both good and bad. I would guess there is no thermal break in the concrete to the outside.  An example of issues are humid air in contact with cool concrete and you will get condensation forming on the floor.  If you do install a floor, I would use 4x8 sheets of high density expanded polystyrene rated for under concrete.  I would then place 2x4s, 16" OC face down on top of the sheets and then fill the cavity with more 1.5" foam board.  I would finish with 4x8 sheets of sub-floor.  Finish with whatever floor you would like.  Some of the new luxury vinyl floor can go right on top of a sub-floor.

Not sure I would use 16" OC ceiling.  Look at 24" OC (2x6) with 5/8" sheet rock. (1/2" might sag). See if you can get some natural light (window) into the space.

Try to get an R-16 or higher wall insulation.

This will not be cheap, but I would guess your trains are not either.

May want to study passive solar uses also.   You concrete floor and even some water tubes could be used as heat sinks.   Summer close curtains during day, open at night to "cool" the environment.   In the winter reverse the process to let sun in and heat things up and close curtains at night to contain heat.   Depends on orientation of the building, windows etc.

An example I saw in upstate New York they added 2 yards of concrete to the floor in front of a large southern facing window/glass doors.    Heating bill in winter was 10% of their neighbors.

The house I grew up in built  around 1900 did this.  It was 9" thick adobe on the first floor.   The trees planted around the house in the summer kept the sun off, and the adobe cooled at night.  In the winter as the leaves fell, the sun would heat the adobe and warm the house.   The Adobe 1st story was comfortable most of the year, it was the wood second story without insulation that got cold in the winter.    People were as smart then as now.

I have always wanted to try passive solar on my next house, which never came along.   

Looks like you have room for a lot more wall insulation than you think, a total of about 9 inches.  1 1/2 inch girt + 6 inch column + 1 1/2 girt.  that would give you about am R 27.  I would use rock wool as it is pest resistant, moisture resistant, durable, semi-rigid and a easy DIY project.  Horizontal girts on the interior spaced on 2-foot centers gives you a place to screw your drywall and run wiring between.  This is typical practice in "Barndominums."

You need to ensure that critters cannot burrow under your walls.

Everything said above by others applies.

Jan

Hi Mike, You could consider this approach as well. Go to your local town hall and ask to see the building/code inspector and get his input. As the mayor of my town for 14 years, I encouraged out citizens to get help from put building inspector. You can still change your ideas but you will usually get good advice.  Bill

Hi guys thanks for all the information. It all sounds good. I know I need to do things correct to make it so my trains last and I am comfortable when working on the layout or just running the trains!

I have come to the idea with help of others that I am going to frame between the 6x6 post as you would if building a house. It will give me plenty of room for wiring, extra insulation, and support for whatever type of ceiling I end up putting in.

I have been looking at the new 110v mini splits and after some research they seem to be just as energy efficient as the bigger220v, from what I understand it all depends on how things are built as with insulation and the room size. The nice thing is I would not have to run 220v out to the shop for a Mini split.

Consider putting 220 into that building regardless.  The use of that building may evolve over the years and you may need 220 down the road if not now.  (table saw, compressor, band saw, etc.)  Its not that much more cost and time.  Its a basic component for the future.

The problem there is I don't think we have room in our electrical panel for 220 to the shop and I don't what to have to pay for a separate meter just for the shop when it already had 110v. I have yet to have a problem running my table saw, band saw, heck even my 110 welder.

I guess I will work with what I have, If I run into a problem then I will have to change things up!