Inside A Vision Line GS-1 Hybrid- With "Surprises!!!!!"

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Because of that, I have stayed away from the early production legacy models. The redesigned boards are much better and more robust.

Hopefully the "much better and more robust boards" can withstand the direct short of the less than robust Canon motor Lionel has been using should it occur.

I believe gunrunnerjohn has seen a few.

I believe they’re more robust than the previous ones. The tiniest bit of static electricity seemed to wipe them out. John had a great suggestion for cheap insurance: put a PTC in series between a motor lead and the board. Should save the board if the motor dies.

The TMCC boards from 1999 through 2006 were the best though. I have rewired several engines that had their pickup wiring get burned up because people used transformers with poor circuit breakers. After replacing all the melted wire in the engine and tender, the boards always seemed to come back to life. Only real problem I consistently saw was the smoke triac’s on the R2LC weren’t very robust.

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Because of that, I have stayed away from the early production legacy models. The redesigned boards are much better and more robust.

Just the opposite of my experience. 1st generation Legacy is essentially TMCC Odyssey programmed with 9 bit vs 8 bit code. Never seen a failure with them. Have seen many RCMCs fail for no apparent reason. For that reason I have little interest in modern Legacy engines.

Pete

I've had a couple of similar stories. I had a 4436 GS4 that decided to act funky after a derailment on my club's layout and suddenly start speeding up over speed step 20 and jump to chuffs per wheel revolution, an NS SD40-2 that had its smoke unit board quit after a brief short on the layout one day, and a Southern Crescent I bought from a forum member years ago that blew its board on my home carpet layout right when I got it in the mail. All got fixed rather quickly, fortunately.

So far, all my post 2014 Lionel locomotives have had all their electronics still functioning fine. Of course this is just my case and the locomotives I had. I have a few other LEGACY locomotives prior to 2014 and anything that went wrong with them was seriously minor like a fan motor not working.

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Would you mind posting a few more pictures of the Lark model? I really wanted to see what the production unit looked like. I’m having overwhelming temptation to get one at a later date once I’ve paid my preorders off.
The Lark version might be the neatest fantasy paint scheme Lionel has ever done IMHO. My only gripe was that they chose the GS-2 as the locomotive. As a fantasy model what if, the GS-4 would have been more plausible for SP.

I'll go ahead and post another thread just on the GS-2 Lark.  Not sure if fits under this one.

I am thinking of getting a gs2 one of these. My question for bruk or anyone here. Is the issues that bruk found only one certain legacy gs models or is it all the gs models? Should I get it looked at after getting it? Just asking

@Lionelzwl2012 posted:

I am thinking of getting a gs2 one of these. My question for bruk or anyone here. Is the issues that bruk found only one certain legacy gs models or is it all the gs models? Should I get it looked at after getting it? Just asking

I have the “Southern Pacific Lines” GS-2.  Perfect out of the box.  Sweet locomotive.

Thanks bryant thats good to know. These models were made on different day and on different factory lines when assembled. Lets hope all the gs visionline models weren't rush out the door.

@Norton posted:

Just the opposite of my experience. 1st generation Legacy is essentially TMCC Odyssey programmed with 9 bit vs 8 bit code. Never seen a failure with them. Have seen many RCMCs fail for no apparent reason. For that reason I have little interest in modern Legacy engines.

Pete

How many Pete?  I've never have had a failure and the new engines are now coming with 3rd generation Legacy.  So you would think there's improvement over the 2nd gen.

@superwarp1 posted:

How many Pete?  I've never have had a failure and the new engines are now coming with 3rd generation Legacy.  So you would think there's improvement over the 2nd gen.

I have five engines with RCMCs, Vision 700E, Mikado, RS11, Niagara, and an Alco S1. My Hudson failed twice and the RS11 had to go back because it couldn't remember its ID. two club members had to send their Niagaras back to Lionel and another had issues with their F7s and still another had to send his Legacy J3 ESE Hudson back. Pretty sure there were more.

Some failures were just smoke issues other it just wouldn't run but most can't these themselves so back they go.

Pete

@Norton posted:

I have five engines with RCMCs, Vision 700E, Mikado, RS11, Niagara, and an Alco S1. My Hudson failed twice and the RS11 had to go back because it couldn't remember its ID. two club members had to send their Niagaras back to Lionel and another had issues with their F7s and still another had to send his Legacy J3 ESE Hudson back. Pretty sure there were more.

Some failures were just smoke issues other it just wouldn't run but most can't these themselves so back they go.

Pete

Well that sucks.  Five hear with no issues.

@Norton posted:

I have five engines with RCMCs, Vision 700E, Mikado, RS11, Niagara, and an Alco S1. My Hudson failed twice and the RS11 had to go back because it couldn't remember its ID. two club members had to send their Niagaras back to Lionel and another had issues with their F7s and still another had to send his Legacy J3 ESE Hudson back. Pretty sure there were more.

Some failures were just smoke issues other it just wouldn't run but most can't these themselves so back they go.

Pete

This sounds familar as a different topic regarding quality issues. 

We have obviously reached a point where we are the final inspection.  If it does not pass, we send it back.  I for one have a return rate of about 20-30%.  MTH, not much better.  For what it's worth, my T1 from Mr. Muffin is at Lionel with a noisy buzz issue.  Aaron witrh Lionel confirmed it was a problem, not a normal sound.  My new MTH J Class is at MM gettin a board fixwd with GGG.  No mfr. is immune apparantly.

Is this acceptable?  Not in the past, but with a mature product in a market with margins under heavy pressure, something has to give.  Less QC from the mfr.  Acceptable now, not really, but that is the choice.  To purchase, or not to purchase.  At this point for me, the enjoyment outweighs the hassle. 

On the bright side, with the long turn around time, its like getting the locomotive or engine for the fisrst time when it gets back.

The most I've seen from the RCMC & RS-lite boards are:

• Melted smoke units.
• Blown bridge rectifiers on input power on RS-lite.
• 1 board from a U30 with failed motor control regulators

Other than that, everything else I've seen was "self" inflicted damage from the person (ME) installing them or a corrupted flash of the board from Lionel.

The RCMC & RS-Lite boards were the best generation of LEGACY electronics to date. We will have to wait and see how these new LCP2/RS4L boards hold up. So far the only thing I'm seeing that the software is kinda "glitch-ee" and lags between commands. For example, If I change the volume on the GS-1 sometimes the tender doesn't see the command and they become out of volume sync . I have to turn the volume all the way up or down then re-adjust it to my preferred setting. Sometimes it does this on initial power start up as well where the engine or tender is louder than the other which messes with the "surround sound" effect. Its really Just annoying. Also a few times the Chuff will take off after (0 to speed step 1)  Sounding like a wheels slip feature. Which I thought was not offered with this model, it wont stop till I stop the engine.

Things I noticed so far:

• When the engine is running you can't over-ride the cab light to turn it on. (the option is nice)
• software is glitchy and laggy at times compared to the RCMC system. I understand there is a lot more going on in the board.
• The LCP2 is all in motor/light/smoke & sound that's a big step for them.
• I wish they kept the Bluetooth Receiver separate from the LCP2 board. They could have made the main board more compact than it is now. Dave mentioned issues they had in a video about the recent Genset, they couldn't get a good reception. They could have mounted the Bluetooth separately in an exposed location of the shell for better reception.
• With the death of the trim pot they need to add more range of master volume steps.

The one other thing I wish the guys at engineering would do is fix the low volume static on the boards. It was there on the RS-lite but more noticeable on this next gen. You never would hear it when you used a trim pot. It can only be heard when you turn it down digitally using the remote to turn the volume down. When you are doing this with DCC decoders and even in DCS with MTH ProtoSounds 2/3 you don't get this static. I know there are "concerns" mentioned on another thread where @Dave Olson explained more about it.