Is Anyone Powering Their DCS System With The Lionel ZW-L And Are You Having Any Problems?

I am now running power for the DCS thru a ZW-L and have zero problems running,finding engines command or conventional etc.

Thanks for the input Don. I'm probably going to put my Z4000 up for sale and get the ZW-L.

Perhaps, the only downside to replacing Z4000 with the ZW-L transformer is that you won't have the capability of using Z4K tracks.

Thanks for responding to my thread Barry. I really don't use that feature. What I don't like about the Z4000 is how I have to throttle it down bringing everything to a standstill anytime there's a short.

Andy,

What I don't like about the Z4000 is how I have to throttle it down bringing everything to a standstill anytime there's a short.

One of the advantages to using Z4K Tracks is that the breaker becomes self-resetting. Regardless, I wasn't aware that the ZW-L has self-resetting circuit breakers.

Andy,

 

I just implemented Z4k tracks and it really is nice.  I leave the throttles in place and use the hand held to set the track Voltage.  Also, the "safety" features Barry points out is an added bonus.  Good luck.

Gentlemen,

   This is where I differ, I actually put 10 Amp Breakers in front of my Z4K, I want to manually reset if I have had a problem on my layout.  In fact every transformer I use has the 10 Amp Breakers bank in front of it.

PCRR/Dave

 

Scott 10 Amp Breakers in front of every transformer, works well for me.

 

So how does Z4K work when theres a short? When you say self resetting, do you mean that it goes back to it's original settings and all the other channels continue to function once the short has been removed? I am currently only using one Z4000 but I was planning on buying another one so that each handle would be assigned to it's own input on my TIU.

This had me curious so I looked into the ZW-L manual.

 

Page 5 states the following:

 

In the event that a breaker is tripped, the backlight on the meter assigned to that output will be turned
off. Refer to Figure 1 for the meters assigned to each output. Correct the short circuit (e.g., make sure that
the train's wheels are properly on the track and remove any foreign objects from the rails), return the
handle(s) to the Off position, and then press the circuit breaker buttons shown in Figure 3 on page 9 to
reset power.

So how does Z4K work when theres a short? When you say self resetting, do you mean that it goes back to it's original settings and all the other channels continue to function once the short has been removed?

First, other than powering on and off the Z4000, one never has to touch it at all. I turn on my entire layout, including my 3 Z4000s, with one switch.

 

Then, all one does is press TR on the DCS Remote, select a previously created Z4K Track (or all Z4K Tracks) and then use the thumbwheel to raise and lower voltage. The handles don't move, however, the voltage is displayed both on the DCS Remote and on the Z4000.

 

In the event of a short circuit on the tracks connected to either handle, voltage on both handles goes to zero. Then, approx. 30 seconds after the short is cleared, you can once again increase voltage via the DCS Remote.

 

For a detailed discussion of Z4K Tracks, refer to pages 94-95 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

In the event that a breaker is tripped, the backlight on the meter assigned to that output will be turned off. Refer to Figure 1 for the meters assigned to each output. Correct the short circuit (e.g., make sure that the train's wheels are properly on the track and remove any foreign objects from the rails), return the handle(s) to the Off position, and then press the circuit breaker buttons shown in Figure 3 on page 9 to reset power.

So, it would appear that the ZW-L does not have self-resettable circuit breakers.

So you really are going to sell off the best, most reliable 3-Rail model train transformer on the market, and spend AT LEAST $200 to $250 more for the ZW-L? Which you will STILL have to reduce the handle to "off", and then manually reset the breaker?

 

Very confusing to me.

Hot Water,

   Everybody likes different equipment buddy, would not mind having one myself.

PCRR/Dave

Barry,

 

Go watch the ZW-L video....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pN5S7X6y9sM

 

I have three Z-4000's and I could not be happier with them.

I must admit to less than adequate understanding, but I do not see any advantage to selling a Z-4000 and buying a ZW-L. As far as I can see, the ZW-L is Legacy featured, but if I have all of the Legacy components already, I am good. In addition, with the ZW-L I am pumping that power through four channels? With 3 Z-4000's I have all I need.

 

Scrappy

Jim,

Go watch the ZW-L video....

The video is 36 minutes long and, since I have no intention of ever owning one, I'm not inclined to watch it.

 

All I was wondering is if it had self-resetting circuit breakers and TexasSP seemed to indicate that it did not. Is there something in the video in that regard?

Ah come on Barry.  Your a good resource for answering a lot of questions, why not educate yourself?  I own 2 Z-4000 and just got a ZW-L (Still in box un-opened - Maybe next week).

 

I'll refund your money if your not satisfied that it answers your question. 

 

I even bought a copy of your book to educate myself and it took FAR LONGER than 36 min....

 

Afraid you might like it?  <just a little more nudge to take a look>  I'm hoping I will like the ZW-L but will have to use it a bit, the Z-4000 have been well worth the $$$ but something better is possible.

Reliable?  My club has two and they have made trips back to MTH for repairs.  The ZW-L is new and probably will have some bugs, but once they have a proven track record I'll go for it.  Besides its capabilities, it just looks so cool.

I don't think there's any need to defend the reliability of the Z-4000 transformer.  It has proven itself to be the power source of choice for mid- to large-size layouts for a good number of years now, and you rarely hear of any problems with these workhorses.

 

Since the ZW-L has been a bit of a latecomer to the high-end power source arena, it will likely take a while for it to be as widely used in the hobby as the Z-4000 is today.

 

Personally, I still like the large digital amp and volt displays on the Z-4000 because I can read them from across the room when I'm operating with a DCS or Legacy remote.

 

Both are fine transformers.  I own a Z-4000 myself and have played with a ZW-L a bit.  My guess is it's just going to be a matter of "different strokes for different folks" when it comes to determining which is in most widespread use 10 or more years from now.

Again, my major beef with the Z4000 is that when I have a derailment, I have to return BOTH handles to zero. Since I am feeding all 4 channels of my TIU with a single transformer, this is a pita as I have to power my whole layout (double mainline, secondary lower loop, and yard) down and then restart everything. If this is a defect in the transformer or if I am missing something here please let me know.

One partial solution would be to buy a second Z4000 and dedicate each handle to it's own channel. This would alleviate the situation somewhat. If I have to do that, it makes sense to me to sell my Z, and buy a ZW-L to power each channel with it's own handle. Since the yard only has a switcher working it, I don't need 180 watts of potential of power for all 4 channels. Costwise, its a wash and when there is a derailment, I only lose that particular loop instead of having to shut my whole layout down and then restart everything. Also, it saves me space in a small 11.5 x 11.5 trainroom since I still would only have 1 transformer about the same size. As an added bonus, the ZW-L just looks way cooler than the Z4000 (I have never been a fan of the Z4000's front panel).

So to answer some who have questioned why I would want to get rid of my Z4000 for a ZW-L, now you know why. I only asked if anyone was running DCS with a ZW-L and were they having any problems or was everything hunky dory.

Seems there may be a disconnect in the above thread.  When Barry is talking of Z4k tracks, I believe he is speaking of tracks fed by a Z4000 which is controlled by the optional receiver.  I have one.  The Z4000 handles are always at zero, with the output voltage being controlled solely by the receiver.  With this arrangement, one doesn't touch the Z4000 ever, and after its track breakers (not accessory breakers--they are manual reset) open, they reset automatically.  When one doesn't have the receiver, then both handles get pulled back manually.

 

Personally, I have 1 Z4000 to get the benefit of the Z4K tracks tghrough fixed TIU channels, and a pair of post war (ancient, now about 60 years old) ZWs whose handles never get touched (saving wear on the rollers) and which put out a pure sine wave at every level, feeding the variables through external breakers.

Hogmaster1.....I think others are trying to say that if your problem as stated has to do with having to shut everything down because of one short as a reason to get rid of the Z4K, then they have explained how to set it up as Z4K tracks so that you won't have that problem any longer.  If the real reason is that you just like the ZW-L better because it looks cool, then go for it.  You may however want to keep the Z4K because you never know when you may want to use it for other electrical needs....just a thought.

 

Alan

RJR, based upon what you have posted, my Z4000 is functioning normally. Therefore I not only would have to buy another Z4000 but would also need to buy 2 Z4K's off of €£@¥ since MTH no longer sells just the antenna. If I'm correct, then I am ahead of the game dollarwise by selling my Z4000 and getting a ZW-L. The only thing I would sacrifice is the auto reset capability of the above mentioned Z4000/Z4K setup.

With the low frequency of derailments on my layout, the ZW-L is looking like a better solution all the time. The only question now is whether it will play nice with DCS.

Hogmaster:  There is a very recent post somewhere on the forum (not this sub-forum) where oscillopscope readouts of Z4000's, ZW-L's are posted.  The ZW-L has a wierd wave form.  What its effect on a variable TIU circuit may be is a question you should look into; I express no opinion thereon.  I am sure that there are many persons willing to take that Z4000 off your hands.

 

Might I suggest that the postwar ZW's are the way to go, since when used with external breakers, a short only affects one circuit and you need only reset one breaker to restore power.

Hogmaster, I have no iron in the fire as I am trying to determine what for future use I want.  However, it seems to me that adding Z4K Tracks will accomplish more for you due to the auto reset function of the unit.

 

Currently I am about to set mine up with a Post War ZW and breakers on each channel, but as I expand I will want something more I am sure.  Just by reading both the ZW-L manual and the Z4000 Manual along with info on Z4K Tracks, it seems like that option is more versatile and function rich for DCS users than hooking up a ZW-L.

RJR: Thanks for your response. Actually, I already have 2 PW ZW's with meters. I was running my layout with them using 10 amp fastblow fuses for protection. I had each main handle assigned to its own input on my TIU and I was very happy with this setup.  I experienced a couple of fried circuit boards and was advised to get a Z4000. Because I only bought one due to cash restraints, I had to assign 2 inputs to each handle. I haven't been real happy with it's operational characteristics as you can probably tell by my posts. It would seem thats it's going to cost me a fair amount of money to get my current setup to operationally equal the setup I had with the ZW's.

To my way of thinking, I would basically go back to the same type of setup with a Single ZW-L only with built in circuit breakers instead of fuses. I have been following the thread that you mentioned quite closely. I do have concerns about the sinewave form of the ZW-L. Thats why I am trying to get some feedback from people who are actually using it with their DCS system and locomotives.

Hogmaster, I really doubt that ZW's with 10-amp fuses would be the cause of frying boards.  The over-10-amps would have to flow for the circuit board for that to have an effect, and that is highly improbable.  Frying could be caused by a problem internal to the loco, or by a surge on the tracks.  But the TIUs, according to Barry, contain surge suppression.

 

I use 5-amp beakers on my layout, to get a quicker opening.  I find I can run 3 trains (w/ smoke off) on a circuit, without the breaker opening; if one is a 7-car passenger train, I start drawing over 6 amps and after a few minutes the breaker will open..  7-amp breakers would be a better choice.

 

If you go to the Bussman fuse web site, you might be surprised at the blowtime tables for "fast-blow" fuses.

 

TexasSP:  What more do you think you'll get that you can't get from the PW ZW? (other than the ability to use a Z4k receiver and use the fixed circuits for conventional ops with the remote)? 

RJR, there is nothing I think I need right now.  I have just been reading quite a bit over the last couple of months and knowing my options.  I could see the Z4000 as an addition in my future.  As of I now, I have no need to replace my ZW as far as I can tell.

Just be sure the internal rollers aren't worn to the point that their brackets cut the secondary winding, and check the 120-volt power cord, and they should last forever, or almost.