Is Lionel making Mth recall LCT items?

That does not make sense. Generally when a licensing agreement ends, it means no more future production, but remaining inventory can be sold. Why would Lionel reclaim all unsold inventory? What would they do with it? Who would pay for repurchasing it?

Where did the dealer hear this?

And how does Lionel know what dealers have in their inventory? Maybe, more like MTH needs to return anything in their inventory!

This just seems completely insane. 

Next do we the purchasers have to forfeit our trains back to Lionel that we bought?

Captaincog posted:

This just seems completely insane. 

Next do we the purchasers have to forfeit our trains back to Lionel that we bought?

 

Nope, you’ll just have to maintain a “speakeasy” to enjoy them...........Pat

That absolutely makes no sense at all. The stuff is bought and paid for why would Lionel want it back? 

Ans.   Baloney. 

Ques.  What is your LHS owner full of...?

Grampstrains posted:

It could be that MTH wants them back to remove the Lionel branding and re-box them as an MTH product.

IMO, too much labor to be worth it, and they would then also be selling refurbished product if they did so, which I doubt they would want to do just to change the nameplates/boxes. 

-Dave

The lhs owner said he had to return lct marked items to Mth, citing the end of the lct licensing agreement.  I had not heard of that before and was just wondering if anyone else had.  

I was at work, ordering over the phone.  I didn’t have time to get into a long discussion.

Although, if you pull up the catalog page on the Mth website, the Lct category is gone.  Although the catalogs were still available if you put in a product number and followed the catalog link from the item description.

I thought the agreement was for MTH to use the Lionel branding on its tinplate products.  All MTH should have to do is stop producing, selling, and promoting Lionel branded items.  I haven't read the agreement but I imagine should it be like any other licensing agreement similar to the ones that bring us Polar express, Thomas, certain railroad names, etc.  Certainly, dealers were not party to that agreement so shouldn't have fo forfeit product.  Now if MTHis  buying it back to be destroyed, donated, or something, that make a bit more sense.

Brendan

I seriously doubt that the dealer you spoke to is giving you correct information.

He may have given you correct information.  I recall a friend who had a licensing agreement with Lionel to produce a certain item and near the end of the licensing agreement, he was forced to sell out the items by the end of the licensing agreement and was unable to sell the items after the agreement ended.   

I have my doubts about this. 1) An LHS most likely will not return something like this without being reimbursed. 2) if you believe some of the current stories about Lionel, they can’t afford to reimburse MTH or LHS for these items. 3) If Mike W. signed an agreement to return all unsold and w/o reimbursement, then Mike isn’t the businessman I thought he was. 4) ad infinium 

Steve

I talked to Mike (of MTH) about this at York. MTH had to sell all the LCT stock by a given date, I think May 1. Otherwise, MTH had to stop selling the stock. MTH would then have to remove the Lionel badging and repack in NON Lionel boxes to sell them. MTH was blowing out tinplate at York. I asked Mike about this because I have a Standard Gauge set coming from MTH.

gftiv posted:

I talked to Mike (of MTH) about this at York. MTH had to sell all the LCT stock by a given date, I think May 1. Otherwise, MTH had to stop selling the stock. MTH would then have to remove the Lionel badging and repack in NON Lionel boxes to sell them. MTH was blowing out tinplate at York. I asked Mike about this because I have a Standard Gauge set coming from MTH.

Thank you, that is right in line with what I was told 

gftiv posted:

I talked to Mike (of MTH) about this at York. MTH had to sell all the LCT stock by a given date, I think May 1. Otherwise, MTH had to stop selling the stock. MTH would then have to remove the Lionel badging and repack in NON Lionel boxes to sell them. MTH was blowing out tinplate at York. I asked Mike about this because I have a Standard Gauge set coming from MTH.

Yes MTH has to sell there inventory of the LCT items, but it doesn't mean that the hobbyshops do, as technically it has already been sold by MTH. 

Bill, you are correct according to Mike of MTH. If a hobby shop or individual buys them before the cut off date, everything is good.

I was at the MTH booth at York in April, they were blowing out LCT cabooses for $50 each. Someone turned around and said when the items you see here are sold, there will be no more LCT items in MTH’s warehouse.

I didn’t know what that meant at the time, now I do.

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

 

I am still waiting for several O gauge items that got cancelled as well. There are 3 or 4 2816 sized hoppers that got cancelled along with the box coupler to lobster claw transition cars.

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

 

For me the question is will Lionel get into Standard Gauge production to the extent that MTH is/was?

Ron

Given the "success" of the Lionel standard gauge Hiawatha and Commodore Vanderbilt sets, which were both beautifully made and reasonably priced, I would say the chances are slim that Lionel would ever attempt marketing standard gauge trains again.  Perhaps more likely is someone like Menards buying MTH, and expanding the line.

I'll take train hobby BS for 200, Alex.

Captaincog posted:

This just seems completely insane. 

Next do we the purchasers have to forfeit our trains back to Lionel that we bought?

 

Only those trains sitting in the box or on the shelf that have never been run!

Jim

This thread has entered the Twilight Zone - Menard's getting into tinplate? I know "Never say never.", but REALLY?! Then again, someone here may be privy to some inside info that we are unaware of. Stay tuned! LOL!

Personally, I believe MTH will continue their Tinplate Traditions line, as Mike has had great success with it over the years, and he is a tinplater at heart!

Is MTH up for sale?  Nobody can buy something that isn't for sale.

Until that happens, how is that more likely?

ANYTHING is possible in this increasingly uncertain world of ours, but I think NOT!

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  

The Lionel foamers didn't buy as much tinplate when it was marked MTH as they did when it was marked Lionel Corporation Tinplate. Same stuff, except for the Lionel name. Makes one wonder what is going on in the minds of the foamers.

Which makes me wonder why Lionel would cancel a deal like that. All they had to do was sit there and collect the money without doing a thing. Makes one wonder what is going on in the minds of the top brass.

RoyBoy posted:

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  

The Lionel foamers didn't buy as much tinplate when it was marked MTH than they did when it was marked Lionel Corporation Tinplate. Same stuff, except for the Lionel name. Makes one wonder what is going on in the minds of the foamers.

Which makes me wonder why Lionel would cancel a deal like that. All they had to do was sit there and collect the money without doing a thing. Makes one wonder what is going on in the minds of the top brass.

I think the show is not over on the LTC. I think there is much posturing and negotiations going on, and that there will be an agreement to continue LTC, as long as Mike thinks there is still a market for these trains, and money to be made. If MTH believe there is no market for LTC, LTC may be dead, for now. Its all about the Benjamin's.

GOOD POINT!

Mike Wolf told me that the items they were blowing out at York were the VERY LAST standard gauge items in their inventory. Mission accomplished.

Jim

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

 

Mike told me two things at York:

1.) He owns all the tooling for all the standard gauge items.

2.) He will produce more standard gauge if the demand is there.  Apparently takes a fair amount of volume to justify an additional build.

Jim

I think both standard gauge and tinplate are relatively small niches in a small hobby.  There has been a lot of production in the last 30 years of tinplate O and standard gauge, by both MTH and Lionel and various joint efforts over that time. 

As an example, rather later in life,  I bought my first new tinplate O from Lionel's current production about 11-12 or so years ago (the freight and passenger sets), and just bought my first ever standard gauge train and track (Lionel Classic 381 and State cars from 1989 or so) recently. As I've been in the model train hobby for about 40 years, I'm an example of the possibility that some of us develop an interest in standard gauge and tinplate rather late in our time in the hobby. 

A hiatus in production and withering of existing inventory might increase demand for new production in a few years time as availability diminishes.  However,  I would guess these products will remain a small niche within the overall toy train/three rail hobby, with modest demand.

Jim,

What about that GG1 that you had some thoughts about?  Is that still a possibility?

Norm

Jim Waterman posted:

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

 

Mike told me two things at York:

1.) He owns all the tooling for all the standard gauge items.

2.) He will produce more standard gauge if the demand is there.  Apparently takes a fair amount of volume to justify an additional build.

Jim

Any idea about the O gauge tooling? Like, who owns it?

Tinplate Art posted:

This thread has entered the Twilight Zone - Menard's getting into tinplate? I know "Never say never.", but REALLY?! Then again, someone here may be privy to some inside info that we are unaware of. Stay tuned! LOL!

I could see maybe Menard's getting into tinplate.  Maybe, the "new" Marx style of tinplate that Ameritrains sold several years ago!

I know that it would be my first Menard purchases.

Jim

jd-train posted:

Tinplate Art posted:

This thread has entered the Twilight Zone - Menard's getting into tinplate? I know "Never say never.", but REALLY?! Then again, someone here may be privy to some inside info that we are unaware of. Stay tuned! LOL!

I could see maybe Menard's getting into tinplate.  Maybe, the "new" Marx style of tinplate that Ameritrains sold several years ago!

I know that it would be my first Menard purchases.

Jim

My understanding is the Marx tooling is available again. Mike just does not have the finances to buy the actual presses etc. I would love to see more Modern Marx, but that would be a hard sell to the masses. Great for crazies like me though.

Steve

RoyBoy posted:

Jim Waterman posted:

SGMA1 posted:

More importantly, will MTH continue to produce Standard Gauge not marked Lionel?  Let's hope so.  I would still like to have a one of the subway sets that were never produced!

 

Mike told me two things at York:

1.) He owns all the tooling for all the standard gauge items.

2.) He will produce more standard gauge if the demand is there.  Apparently takes a fair amount of volume to justify an additional build.

Jim

Any idea about the O gauge tooling? Like, who owns it?

MTH owns that tooling also.

Steve