It's Only a Boxcar for Gosh Sakes!!!

David,

I enjoy the way you make the simplest things an upfront slap in the face for Lionel.

I know it is not the accepted forum norm to saying anything even slightly negative...but, that has to be the ugliest boxcar scheme ever conceived.  I am sure they are hesitant to make it based upon orders and projected sales.

Yuk!

Probably true, Sam.  I'm just glad I don't have any $$$ tied up in pre-order deposits.  Although this item isn't "big ticket", when you have a bunch on order, it's a tidy sum.  That's why I hesitate pre-ordering from any dealers who require deposits for this stuff.  Here we are looking at 3+ years going potentially to almost 4 years for this jewel.  

David

I actually like the paint-scheme... pretty cool.  But that's what makes the world go 'round.   

Lionel has already produced the matching locomotives and bay-window caboose.  And this was YEARS before BTO ever came into being.  So I don't think low order quantities are responsible for the delays here.  But only Lionel knows the real answer. 

BTW, I passed on the locos, because I already have a triple-header of MTH CSX "dark future" diesels for the job, but I did purchase the Lionel caboose.  Pictures don't do this paint-scheme any justice.  The caboose looks fabulous!!! 

David

Well, truth be told... I'm wondering which will be delivered first... this Lionel boxcar, or Atlas-O's CZ domed observation.   

Does that make you feel any better?  Always best to comment in an equal-opportunity fashion whenever possible. 

David

Atlas says April for the CZ Zephyr Observation,looking forward to finally run this train,already ordered the Baggage Car.

Mikey

For me, it is very sad if I feel that I can not express my thoughts and feelings, in a respectful way, about "anything" related to this hobby. I do not believe in loyalty to a company that makes a profit off of my hard earned $$ of which I already pay about $0.40+ in taxes including sales tax....

I do believe that we are able to discuss any issues, and they should not be deleted, in a free and civilized way on this forum, Am I wrong?

David, like you I have been waiting for them too. I'm also still waiting on the smoke fluid loader which has been on the shipping list longer but it is more complex in nature. 

The funny thing is that up until a couple of years ago I had no interest in CSX. After the CSX Heritage series was introduced I bought both the B&O and the WM AC6000's which were great. And then I saw the CSX version in person and that scheme hit a high note for me. So I really like the scheme on the box cars and I ordered a few more of them to put with my CSX intermodal cars to make a really nice looking train.

But I'm in no hurry, I just finally got my N&W Pocohantas set after waiting a long time for it. And it just gives me something to look forward to since there was not to much in the new catalogs to pre-order.

The graphic scheme might be too difficult for the people working in the factory to mask and paint consistently.

I have, throughout the years, put many cataloged items on my personal must have ssh list.   And, almost as many times as not, the items are never actually produced.  It's the bait and switch of the model train world.  Well, at least it's the bait part.  They lure in with a crust of bread, and, then they crush your blanking head.   OOPS, this rhyme in time may not be appropriate.   

Delivery delays played a big part in not ordering anything from the new catalog.  The only item delivered on time was the VL BB from my orders.  MTH isn't immune either.

I can usually find what I want on the secondary market.  I know your situation is different, so I hope an answer is soon for your sake.  I can't imagine waiting that long on a car. 

I have heard that Lionel continues to slip the ship dates on David's items just to give him something to post about. 

I kid you David!  LOL!  I can see Mike Reagan and the Lionel guys back at the NC World Headquarters...

David bought this...make it's delivery date slip.

But Mike these are in the warehouse.

Make them slip!  Bawahahahaha!

Let's not forget "BTO" is really just a new name to get the point across and try to increase Lionel's sales.

Many, many items are cataloged and delayed or never produced. 

In the delay department, the Gingerbread Gateman was a seemingly simple mod of an existing product, but he missed both the Christmas he was intended for and the one following! (I think he was delivered February or April after that 2nd Christmas)

In the cancellation category, the Snoopy Red Baron Pylon and newly designed Coal Conveyor to go with the Rotary Tipple (this conveyor was a refined physical design over the 397) were both offered and then cancelled (just 2 examples, I had both on order).  There were either not enough orders or some complexity came up.  Neither was offered as BTO, since BTO did not exist in the Lionel acronym list at that point.

I do hope your boxcar shows up someday!

-Dave

Two thoughts.  

1) Maybe Lionel got screwed.  There is a lot of turbulence in the Chinese labor market now.  Chinese suppliers (in other industries) that I am working with have simply renegde on their production agreements if they have labor problems or even find a better deal to fill their factory, leaving the supplier holding now-empty promises.  Maybe this happened.  I see everyone: Lionel, MTH, WBB, even Menards with its most recent Feed and Seed, having quality and production problems, so I am not assuming that this is Lionel's fault.  

2) It can't be hard to make one yourself! It's a frigging plastic box on two standard O-gauge trucks, with a rather simple paint scheme.   Nothing other than a flatcar would be easier to scratch build.  The paint scheme looks at first blush like it would require three rather straightforward masking steps, and you could buy the lettering you need at from that vinyl lettering website we've talked about here. 

Lee, I think that you hit the nail on the head. China has always been a place full of unstable and unreliable job shops. They fully understand that American corporations have their products made there to exploit the cheap labor to save money. In many cases they bid jobs at low prices and then find out that there is little money to be made and shift direction. The Chinese labor force is largely made up of uneducated, unskilled improperly trained workers who's daily wage amounts to food for the day. They work six 10 hour days, and in many cases live in factory owned dormitories where the only space provided is a bunk bed and one bathroom for 30 people. Chinese companies are also VERY unethical.  It is an unstable work environment to say the least and as the Chinese worker demanding more wages for a better their standard of living change will result. In some cases the few skilled workers are achieving but overall the situation is bleak and I believe that China is heading for massive political upheaval. As this happens look for manufacturing to continue on its path to return here

An AMEN to that Dennis!

Originally Posted by MartyE:

I guess my cover has been blown, Marty.  We must have a mole here, 'cause I've been ordering all my stuff under a secret alias to avoid such retribution!!!  

All you guys must be ecstatic that I didn't order a VL Big Boy.  Marty might be on to something here, 'cause the Big Boy arrived right on schedule!!!   That must be it.  

David

One of my favorite locomotives in my collection is the Chessie AC6000 and the matching caboose.  Cataloged along with those was this matching hopper, for which I anxiously awaited.  I was so disappointed when it was dropped, I went so far as to call Lionel and ask about purchasing any production samples they might have--that approach has worked for me in a couple of other hobbies, and I own some neat prototypes for toys that were never released.  Sadly, it didn't work with Lionel.

At least the CSX boxcar is still on the schedule, so perhaps there's hope!

Always disappointing when that happens.  How long after being catalog'd was that hopper officially cancelled?

I don't doubt for a second that the overseas production environments are cut-throat nowadays... much more than we could ever imagine -- or that the importers would even want us to know the sordid details.  It's not like JLC picking up the phone in his NYC office and calling across the Hudson River to the NJ factory in order to see what's going on!    Were it only that simple today.  

I guess the thing that's most puzzling about these delays and new ETA's is... You'd think if we have an ETA of 6/10/2015, then the items would already be produced by now -- maybe getting loaded into a container for the trip across the Pacific.  And if the item isn't even manufactured yet, there's no way it's gonna get to the States -- let alone to a dealer's store -- by June 10th.  Somebody's gotta know the real deal... or so we would like to think.  

It's one thing to take ETA's with a grain of salt when a new catalog is published.  At that point the schedule is one huge guessing game.  But after a couple of years, you'd think an importer would have a better handle on items actually being produced and shipped overseas.    That doesn't seem to be the case though.

David

Now that's funny!  Thanks for taking one for the team, Dave!  I for one thank you!

These custom CSX schemes might be too difficult to paint at the factory.

Andrew

Maybe its because...... "its only a boxcar". Lionels "big ticket items Like the bigboy are their "bread and butter". Those of us bottom feeders that want boxcars, and other things priced well south of $2000 are just gonna have to wait........ 

AMS

Don't give up hope.

I too have come to really like the Chessie Systems yellow color and Logo!!!

Walter at RMT puts out an outstanding product and maybe he might get interested.

OR

Maybe Menard's.

I was able to get only 4 of the Menard's boxcars but come "Black Friday" this year I will be there to get my hands on them. The quality was acceptable. The only thing I had to do was tighten the connection of the trucks attachment to the metal body of the boxcar, they were too loose and leaned a lot into the curves, but for th price I didn't mind a bit!!!

Ditto on the Chinese issue but Dennis needs to keep in mind all molding can't come back to the states it stays in China!! That's why it will be a long time before any manufacturing comes back here not to mention there are other Pacific Rim countries that still can produce cheaper that here. By the time anything comes back here there will no longer be a skilled work force to handle it anyway unless robotics can do it all!! 

David, please stay away from the B6sb 0-6-0!!