JAD Paperwork Find

VERY INTERESTING!

I have a couple that I will check! Thanks.

I have all the same paperwork for my JAD Hiawatha, which I bought from the original owner. It wasn't in the tender, but he included it with the purchase. Good find. 

John 

My Grandfather used to stash info like that inside of shells too.

Previous owners and contact info, parts changed, etc.. Especially used inside tenders, dummies, and passenger cars. Besides the logs he kept too. 

I also stuck some info inside my first kit builds because of his lead. One including the home contact info for Ye Ol Puff & Stuff owners right out of Gramp's "little black book" of train people.(50s,60s? ) (I recognized the names in an old post about YOP&S and put 2+2 together; right town, right names, right hobby)

I'm surprised Gramps didn't have a log about log entries

I am now going to look inside my JAD tenders for hidden paperwork.

Bob Nelson

I've checked one so far. It, like the engine, was stuffed full of foam. Apparently a previous owner didn't like the tinplate sound? Now I have to dig out the others and check them.

@BlueComet400 posted:

I have all the same paperwork for my JAD Hiawatha, which I bought from the original owner. It wasn't in the tender, but he included it with the purchase. Good find. 

 

John 

Was your paperwork the same sort of “bundle” with the receipt, blue card, info sheet, and TTOS bulletin?

My point was, I think the previous owner put it there, not JAD.  Gramps also occasionally found notes and paperwork in used stuff he bought too. It wasn't "common", but lots of folks did it half a century ago.

The info chain would last put the paperwork in the buyers hand, not JAD. (read the notes, obvously written at JAD and sent to the buyer with "only 7 left" enticement to buy soon).  I can't really imagine JAD doing it, even on request.

The shipping would require the invoice to be in or on the box as well.  Opened/damaged boxes without invoices inside go on "the mystery shelf" at a carrier co..  The invoices exist for more than the accounting reasons alone.

Following up with a bit more info - I think my curiosity is getting the best of me. 

 JAD physically stamped a production number on the Hiawatha engines - not the tenders as far as I know. 
I own #10 of what JAD indicates was a run of 250 engines and tenders. I don’t know how many were actually made. My number is stamped on the sheet metal frame between the lead trucks and the drivers (photo attached). 
#10 does not include the paperwork in the tender shell and does not have the wires. I don’t know whether or not my engine and tender were ever separated at any point. 
I found the paperwork in the shell of the tender for #161. So, #161 includes both the paperwork and the wires. 

@asmith1440 posted:

 

 $299.50 for the engine and tender! 1974 prices are sure more attractive than 2020.  

 

That is  $1659 in today's money. The CPI calculator helps to make sense of old prices.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

That’s really cool thanks for sharing. Interesting to hear in the letter JAD tell the history of Standard Gauge, when it started, when it ended, and what JAD is trying to do with this loco, trying to produce what Lionel would have produced if they kept going in Standard Gauge. Then the description of the engine and cars. It’s a little time capsule.

I bought a Lionel single U-boat Bicentenial set coach on EBay a few years ago. Turns out the seller was Carol Redman McGuiness. In the package she included a Lionel flyer advertising/describing the Bicentenial set, a commemorative badge to put on a shelf, and some other paperwork. I ran into her at the last Pittsburgh TCA Convention and made it a point of thanking her the documentation. Nice lady.

@Adriatic posted:

My point was, I think the previous owner put it there, not JAD.  Gramps also occasionally found notes and paperwork in used stuff he bought too. It wasn't "common", but lots of folks did it half a century ago.

The info chain would last put the paperwork in the buyers hand, not JAD. (read the notes, obvously written at JAD and sent to the buyer with "only 7 left" enticement to buy soon).  I can't really imagine JAD doing it, even on request.

The shipping would require the invoice to be in or on the box as well.  Opened/damaged boxes without invoices inside go on "the mystery shelf" at a carrier co..  The invoices exist for more than the accounting reasons alone.

Yep - certainly the owner put it there. The paperwork placement is just one of those weird collector mysteries. 

@asmith1440 posted:

Was your paperwork the same sort of “bundle” with the receipt, blue card, info sheet, and TTOS bulletin?

Yes. I have all the same papers. My Hiawatha set came with everything when I bought it in 2004 except the original boxes. The seller had them, he just couldn't find them. 

About 13 years ago, I connected with Dick Battaglia, the "D" in JAD. In our conversation, he told me he had lots of the advertising posters left and offered to send me one. I asked him to sign it, and he agreed. That poster is now framed and hanging in my train room. 

Hello all

Interesting you have the receipt for engine #161.........here is engine #162...and it's cars ..

250 engines at the time was a lot to sell . John Daniels was only able to sell about half that many sets of cars ....

In comparison Lionel produced about 750 sets of the 2001 Hiawatha Hudson sets ...too many for the small market ...ending up slashing prices ..****ing off many dealers and owners ..just to sell off back stock ..

Cheers Carey 

Ha, 161&162 next to each other again, in a fashon.

Time to put on your fav. ethnic outfit and sing "it a small world after all"

And now you both know who to call first if you sell

With all of the discussion of the JAD Paperwork, I had to check my set.  My engine is stamped 171

Although no original paperwork, I am lucky enough to have the original boxes, which are a box for the engine and tender and a box for the 4 cars.  The boxes are largely unimpressive, but do have their original shipping labels.

Here is the shipping label for the engine/tender box

Here is the JAD Label from the box for the 4 cars.  It appears that the cars were also sold to Mr Van Pelt, as the label starts with Donald.

Here is a view of the open coach box with apparent original packing material.

The cars (and engine) appear to have originally been wrapped in brown paper, with wax coating on one side and then wrapped in foam.

NWL

Ah, so you got that tender only that was on ebay recently! Whatcha gonna do with it?

Jim

@Carey Williams posted:

Hello all

Interesting you have the receipt for engine #161.........here is engine #162...and it's cars ..

250 engines at the time was a lot to sell . John Daniels was only able to sell about half that many sets of cars ....

In comparison Lionel produced about 750 sets of the 2001 Hiawatha Hudson sets ...too many for the small market ...ending up slashing prices ..****ing off many dealers and owners ..just to sell off back stock ..

Cheers Carey 

Carey: does your tender have the "wire to nowhere" that mine has in the first photo?

I finally dug all of mine out and checked them out, but to no avail. I wasn't going to admit it, but I own three. You all know how sometimes things can be such a good deal, that you just can't say no... I own numbers 14, 90, and 167 (and an additional shell that doesn't have a number.)  They are all slightly different. Number 14 is painted differently slightly on the nose and on the fake stairs at the back side of the shell. Number 167 has stripes possibly added by a previous owner, although they are very well done. I have added pictures so we can add to this archive. Somewhere I have an original small poster advertisement for these engines. When I find it, I'll post pictures of it as well.

@POC914NUT posted:

I finally dug all of mine out and checked them out, but to no avail. I wasn't going to admit it, but I own three. You all know how sometimes things can be such a good deal, that you just can't say no... I own numbers 14, 90, and 167 (and an additional shell that doesn't have a number.)  They are all slightly different. Number 14 is painted differently slightly on the nose and on the fake stairs at the back side of the shell. Number 167 has stripes possibly added by a previous owner, although they are very well done. I have added pictures so we can add to this archive. Somewhere I have an original small poster advertisement for these engines. When I find it, I'll post pictures of it as well.

They look awesome lined up like that! Am I the only one with phantom wires in their tender? That would explain a lot....

@Jim Waterman posted:

Ah, so you got that tender only that was on ebay recently! Whatcha gonna do with it?

Jim

Maybe plant petunias in it? 😉 Actually, I’d like to add an air whistle to go with my other “complete” engine. I love these engines, but I need that extra interaction of the whistle to make it a goof runner. 

None of mine have wires, however I added a Lionel whistle to one of the engines. Thanks to my Dad.

Just an fyi, there is room for a whistle inside the engine. Then you don't have to worry about power pickups on the tender.

@POC914NUT posted:

Just an fyi, there is room for a whistle inside the engine. Then you don't have to worry about power pickups on the tender.

Wow - what a line up, maybe you should change your name to 'Hiawatha Nut'

Jim

@POC914NUT posted:

Just an fyi, there is room for a whistle inside the engine. Then you don't have to worry about power pickups on the tender.

The Milwaukee Road built four Atlantic Hiawathas.  Does anyone know if Lionel or anyone else ever made "wing decals/stickers" for the #1, #2, and #4 Hiawathas?

Bob Nelson

@POC914NUT posted:

Just an fyi, there is room for a whistle inside the engine. Then you don't have to worry about power pickups on the tender.

Thanks for the tip! That’ll solve my “problem” much more easily. 

@POC914NUT posted:

Just an fyi, there is room for a whistle inside the engine. Then you don't have to worry about power pickups on the tender.inn

I would like to install a MTH contemporary engine with synchronized smoke in my JAD Hiawatha and it will almost fit.  However, the "bolt" pulling together the two halves of the engine casting prevents me from locating the smoke unit where it needs to be, i.e., directly beneath the smoke stack.  

Has anyone made this upgrade?  If you have, what did you do to overcome the bolt?  Did you simply remove it?  

Bob Nelson