Lamenting Local Stores

Why the unhappy face? You choose to buy them knowing they would be coming from China.

Curious, I took a look on EBay, I saw US made barrier strips (Brand names like TRW). But I'd guess they were significantly more expensive, and were probably old stock to boot. I don't think buying old stock product helps the US economy much.

I think you can blame Amazon Prime for RS losing sales on electrical & electronic parts (and just about anything else RS sold).  a) you can find just about anything, b) its less expensive, and c) delivered in one or two days.  Beats burning a couple of gallons of gas only to find that the part you wanted is out of stock.  Then there are the offshore sources if you want to wait a few days longer for China Mail.

My other sources for parts (Digikey, Newark, Jameco) have streamlined shipping so the minimum order to justify shipping has dropped significantly and delivery times are short.

The closest store to me finally closed, but I won't miss it.

Dan, as the bard sang, "The times they are a changing.... Years ago, in a place far, far away, I owned an RS franchise. It was good for about 4 years and then the bottom began to erode for the franchise owners. Inventory priority was given to company stores; ad budget was increased and the "royalty" was increased with no perceptible benfit to the franchisee.  I had a significant number of DIY guys and some train enthusiasts. It was no longer a tenable investment for not only the $$ return but for my time and effort. I got out. The physical facility immediately became a "company store" and that was the end. Not sad they are now gone. 

just my rant and 2 cents....  (I believe that the 'Net has made it better for shopping in some ways, worse in others.) 

I probably didn't give them enough business to keep the sign lit up, but I miss being able to stop in and get those little parts that only they seemed to have carried.

Although towards the end, they carried less and less electrical stuff and tried to compete in the cell phone and RC toy cars and boats business.

Dan P.

You learned the "poorly kept secret" of buying parts and hobby stuff from China -- buy more than you need for an immediate project and become your own mini-warehouse for often-used items like terminal strips.

It seems counter-intuitive, but the hardest terminal strips to find are the two-position ones; which are handy for distributing two-conductor wires carrying 12v or 14v to lights, operating accessories, and such.  I use four-position terminal strips for connecting wires along the pathways to O-gauge switches: three wires from the controller and one wire for 14v power to activate the 10 K-Line switches on my layout (instead of track power).

Once upon a time, there were five RS stores in the central Arkansas region including two in Conway where I live. Now there's only one in a nearby town. Thankfully, the store owner maintains the inventory of their large PARTS CABINET. The online RS website offers many of its products, but a small order is often overwhelmed in cost because of added S&H charges. Again, place no small orders.

Mike

Dan Padova posted:

 Years ago, I could pop down to the local Radio Shack for most if not all, of my electrical supplies for my layout.  It's been many years since I could do that...

Tracker John posted:

I think you can blame Amazon Prime for RS losing sales on electrical & electronic parts (and just about anything else RS sold)...

It goes way back almost thirty years for me in getting away from Radio Shack for train electronics. It was the All Electronics catalog mailed to us and our office purchasing a fax machine($1000.00). I thought it just couldn't get any better than this.

I also purchase the inexpensive stuff on ebay (with free shipping) from Asian suppliers and try to 'stock up' when I order something. That is if it's something that will probably be used again and again. There are many new, pre-assembled items on ebay that can be purchased for much less than you can buy just the parts and free shipping to go with it. I am a sucker for some of these electronic gadgets, just can't resist!!

For some components I also order from Digi-Key, which I think is a good option the the ebay suppliers. They are fairly inexpensive and the shipping is very fast and reasonable compared to most other places. I usually get my orders pretty quickly, within a day or two. I would guess that many of their items originate in Asia as well, but are possibly better quality, but who knows? They do have a lot of name brand items though. They also have a very large selection of components, possibly even some that can not be found on ebay.

We had a few local RS stores that stayed open after the last round of going out of business. I think they may now all be gone though. Some of the ones I used to go to have since closed. I'll have to look and see if any are left? The problem I had with them was they never had more than two of anything, if that had any at all. Not to mention high prices on the few components they did have. Still, I went there often and would usually end up purchasing something, just because they were there I guess.

I am thankful for All Electronics. They are in Los Angeles and have almost every part you would need at the absolute lowest prices. Digi-Key is also a good source and also has a schematic diagram program.

C W Burfle posted:

Why the unhappy face? You choose to buy them knowing they would be coming from China.

Curious, I took a look on EBay, I saw US made barrier strips (Brand names like TRW). But I'd guess they were significantly more expensive, and were probably old stock to boot. I don't think buying old stock product helps the US economy much.

I get it.  It's just the fact that we're almost forced to buy from China.  And don't let me get into the politics of it, 'cause it won't be pretty.  

Looks like we're all on the same page.  Like Bob Walker, I discovered All Electronics quite a few years ago.  I have given them a good amount of business.  And as others have pointed out, looking for something on the internet gives you a myriad amount of choices.  It's a simple task to shop price that way.  Another advantage of looking for something I need on the internet for any given project where I'm not sure exactly what it is I need, just type in some words and viola, new ideas come up and possibly make the project easier.  

I get it, the internet certainly has made shopping less painful.  

Dan,

you start out by lamenting the demise of local stores, then you claim you are “almost forced” to buy from China.  But factually you indicated earlier you could buy from another non China source but you liked the cheap price for barrier strips from China.

No victims here, just enamored with cheap prices.  We all have choices.

For components, All Electronics sometimes doesn't know what they have and they have no data sheets on many of their items. I got a few things from them years ago and never was able to find any data on what the specs were on the components. I think a lot of their stuff is used surplus, the reason for no data available. Ebay stuff can have the same problems and some of the descriptions are just terrible. Seems a lot gets lost in translation.

That is why I prefer Digi-key for these types of things, they have data sheets and many other sources for getting info on their products. You can also call them and ask if you can't find something, they will help you find it or a substitute. 

Rich883 posted:

Dan,

you start out by lamenting the demise of local stores, then you claim you are “almost forced” to buy from China.  But factually you indicated earlier you could buy from another non China source but you liked the cheap price for barrier strips from China.

No victims here, just enamored with cheap prices.  We all have choices.

Last night I was sitting in this same chair buying some toggle switches and barrier strips, when I had a flashback to the time when I would simply stop at a local Radio Shack for these items.  I could walk into the store, pick out what I wanted, pay and go.  Done.  Items in my hand immediately.  

That's what I was thinking about last night.  As for being forced to buy Chinese goods, or being enamored by the lower prices, that's on me.  But would you pay $4.00 for the exact same item, when you could buy it for $.90 ?   The entire way we shop and do business has changed from when I was younger.  If I stop and think about it, which I did last night, it saddens me somewhat.  

The same has happened to our beloved local hobby shops.  The only real train shop I know of in my area is Hennings and even they are not what they were in the '80s.  The Toy Train Station in Feasterville may still be around but I can't say for sure as I haven't been there for a few years.  There were many other hobby shops that specialized in trains around the Philadelphia area, but they are mostly all gone.  

But would you pay $4.00 for the exact same item, when you could buy it for $.90 ?  

Is it really the exact same item?

Sometimes, the cheap item is good enough. Other times I am more than happy to pay more for a quality item.
For example, I use cheap chip brushes for cleaning, but when I am painting, I buy better paint brushes, usually Purdy.  

I am not so sure that many of the electronic products you buy from U.S. suppliers don't come from the same Chinese manufacturers that get sold on eBay.

I would like to think that the U.S. supplier's  specifications for parts is higher or has better quality control.   Chinese manufacturers can and will produce high quality items if the wholesale buyer pays for it.  Apple being the prime example.  

The big obvious benefit for buying from U.S. suppliers is being able to support the jobs of all the people directly and indirectly who work for these companies. The other benefit is the customer support.  Recently ordered some parts from a large U.S. Supplier.  They delivered quickly but made a mistake sending the parts.  Email to supplier about the error.  Got a reply 2 hours later the correct parts were being shipped the same day and they sent me a return label and asked to ship the parts backs.  Mistakes happen all the time.  In this case the customer service response made the price difference  inconsequential.   The real rub comes into play when there is a big price difference.  What constitutes "big" is specific to each individual.   Clearly there are lots of people on the forum who have the resources to not have price differences dictate their choices.  But there are also lots of people for whom building a model train layout is a big expense and price differences do make a difference in their purchasing habits.   

I will echo what others have said regards the demise of Radio Shack.  They were my goto for not only parts but knowledgeable people.   As the years went by the inventory became dismal as did the knowledge of employees.  It got to the point where it just wasn't worth the 25 mile trip to the store.    I do recognize that the retail landscape is changing dramatically making,it harder for retailers to compete.

Ed

Ed, I think it's naive to think that U S Suppliers are not acting as middle men.  I also believe that it is naive to think we are supporting American jobs by buying from our own suppliers, no matter what the merchandise is.  For some reason the onus has fallen on us to support our workers, when it was and is the people at the top who created the situation where everything we buy is made overseas.  

I know we're not supposed to enter into any political discussions here.  But let me point out one fact from history.  World War II was won not by our military prowess alone.  If it hadn't been for the fact that would could out produce every other country in the world, including Germany and Japan, we may have seen a different outcome.  This lesson has been forgotten by those in power.  This is why history is doomed to repeat itself, over and over.  

Dan,

Wish I could disagree with what you said but when I take off my rosey glasses I can agree with you.  The lessons learned from WWII speak volumes on many counts.   Sad.

Ed

C W Burfle posted:

But would you pay $4.00 for the exact same item, when you could buy it for $.90 ?  

Is it really the exact same item?

Sometimes, the cheap item is good enough. Other times I am more than happy to pay more for a quality item.
For example, I use cheap chip brushes for cleaning, but when I am painting, I buy better paint brushes, usually Purdy.  

I bought all the Euro style terminal strips I could find at 3 or 4 nearby RS stores in their first round of closings a few years ago (2012 or so?). They were heavily discounted. I have since gotten some from an Asian supplier on ebay and they are not the same, the RS models were better quality and heavier plastic. I don't remember the prices of either ones, so I can't compare that, but they were the same wire size and voltage rating.

What I don't know is if they have now all been cheapened up or if the better models carried by RS are still available elsewhere? I have looked around a bit, but haven't ordered any lately from any supplier.

I keep getting promotional emails from Radio Shack now and then. Usually I ignore them, but this morning out of curiosity I eyeballed the offerings and then hit up their store locator.

It appears that in addition to the online remnant of the company, a network of unaffiliated brick-and-mortar retailers are or will be carrying some RS-branded product. How much I cannot be certain of--none of them are in or near NYC yet.

---PCJ

I did a search for RS stores this morning as well. They all seem to be franchise dealers in appliance stores and such, and all are located in small towns quite far from the KC area where I live. None left in the KC area as I was thinking. Nearest one was about 60 miles away in Osage City, KS. That's a bit too far for me and who knows what they will have when you get there?

Dan,

I feel your pain, but what I lament the most is the ability to go into a store and walk around and see, touch and feel the component you need in order to make sure it's exactly what you need.

At least around Boston, we have a "U-Do-It-Electronics" which is pretty good for supplies. 

Dan Padova posted:

Rich883 posted:

Dan,

you start out by lamenting the demise of local stores, then you claim you are “almost forced” to buy from China.  But factually you indicated earlier you could buy from another non China source but you liked the cheap price for barrier strips from China.

No victims here, just enamored with cheap prices.  We all have choices.

Last night I was sitting in this same chair buying some toggle switches and barrier strips, when I had a flashback to the time when I would simply stop at a local Radio Shack for these items.  I could walk into the store, pick out what I wanted, pay and go.  Done.  Items in my hand immediately.  

That's what I was thinking about last night.  As for being forced to buy Chinese goods, or being enamored by the lower prices, that's on me.  But would you pay $4.00 for the exact same item, when you could buy it for $.90 ?   The entire way we shop and do business has changed from when I was younger.  If I stop and think about it, which I did last night, it saddens me somewhat.  

The same has happened to our beloved local hobby shops.  The only real train shop I know of in my area is Hennings and even they are not what they were in the '80s.  The Toy Train Station in Feasterville may still be around but I can't say for sure as I haven't been there for a few years.  There were many other hobby shops that specialized in trains around the Philadelphia area, but they are mostly all gone.  

 

Dan, as others mentioned is it really the same, and by the same I mean the entire purchase, not just the part.  I am willing to pay more for something if I feel the entire offer is better, that may mean I value the service, the person selling it, the location of the supplier.  Don't get me wrong I buy things on the web from overseas when it makes sense.  It is all my choice.

The consumers demand for cheap goods drive just about everything, the quest for cheaper manufacturing, direct marketing to remove the middleman, eCommerce instead of a brick and mortar.   Products become cheaper and cheaper over time, and the trade off is a change in the way they are made, who makes them, and how they are sold.  A quick web search found a 23" color TV in 1969 sold for $349 when the average wage was $5893, so about 5.9% of the average, today a 24" TV sells for $102 with free freight and the average wage is $48,642 and the TV costs about 0.2% of a person wage.

Everyone wants lower prices so they can have more things, no one wants to wait, or not have something, they expect there is a cheaper way to get the goods they want.  Price erosion sounds like a great thing as a buyer, but to accomplish that there are lots of choices and trade offs, many of which people don't like the sounds of, but cheap prices win the day.  You can't have $100 TV's made by someone making $48k a year, the math doesn't work.

the biggest reason for radio shacks Demise , is the radio , the shortwave and ham radio , was a huge hobby ,at one time and that is were you went to get parts to build your own radio ,and the people who worked there were radio junkies themselves . Hence the name " radio operator shack " remember civil air defense, all were radio operators  . With pc and smartphone you don't need a shortwave radio , to break the iron curtain and radio free europe  , techman

There is still some value in shopping at a local store. Try buying an office chair without sitting in it first. Try buying a pair of jeans without trying them on first. Some things have to be experienced first hand before you can even consider making a purchase.

The problems occur with commodity items that have accurate specifications. Electronic components fall into this category. No matter where or how you get them, the quality is generally acceptable. Price then becomes the difference maker.

The other factor is time. Two to four weeks shipping may not be acceptable depending on your disposition given a substantial percentage cost saving. The immediacy of Radio Shack could put your mind at ease even though the mark up in price was astonishing. And there's really no need to look over the capacitors other than to find out if they are currently in stock.

I always stopped at Radio Shack when I went to the mall just to see what they were up to. You would walk in the store and hurry toward the back to get away from the cell phones and TV sets. When you got past the batteries and into the wire section, then you could spend some time learning about what you might want to play around with next. I believe the last time I was in there they were selling Arduino kits.

Sears used to sell houses. They're not around anymore either. But I know of a couple of Sears houses that have stood the test of time.

WEll at least Barnes and Noble is still here ,at least for now!

Dan, You are absolutely one-hundred per-cent correct. I surely mis the Radio Shack Stores, and also the Western Auto Stores, as both stores had unique items of interest. In Clarksville Tennessee, we at one time had 3 Radio Shack stores.  Now, none.  Fortunately, I over bought and have ample supplies of wiring devices needed to finish my layout, which turns 22 this year. There are electrical supply stores in Evansville, Indiana, a two hour drive, if electrical devices are needed.  Great topic, we live in a changing world. At least our Hobby is strong....This is a fun OGR Forum

Just an excellent example of our local economies merging into national economies during the last century, and now national economies merging into a global economy.  The lowest price usually wins on smaller and lightweight items.  As the item gets physically larger and heavier (cars, large appliances, housing) the made-locally makes more sense.  Industries like agriculture, healthcare, construction, and criminal justice usually need to be more local.  Manufacturing, call centers and some distribution aspects can certainly be located overseas. 

No one in this country wants to work for those wages, in those factories, with no benefits.  Hence the lower price (and the disappearance of many aspects of local economies, including your LHS and RS).

As a consumer, I don't believe that I am under an obligation to pay more without getting more.  I don't say that to be selfish, but rather because like everyone else I have bills to pay and as a responsible adult you also need to save appropriately and provide for your family.  Your ability to do that is compromised if every time you purchase something you pay significantly more for it than is necessary.  At the same time, if something is of higher quality, I will pay for it.  But with many of these items that we are discussing, the domestic item is typically not better, it is just more expensive because it reflects the higher cost of doing business here. 

Despite the tales of doom and gloom reported here almost daily, in the O gauge hobby importing has generally worked quite well for the hobbyist.  The trains and accessories are far more capable and interesting than they were 30 years ago, there are more choices in the market, and the prices are much lower, not only adjusting for inflation but also after adjusting for the enhanced features in the product.  While quality bugs appear to be an issue, it was my experience that LTI and MPC had their fair share of issues as well, and didn't run as well as the new items even when they weren't broken or defective.  

In sum, while it has become fashionable to complain about trade and importing, the reality is that trade increases the overall wealth of all those who participate and has the effect of tying countries closer together.  In the big scheme of things, this is a good thing because, historically, trading partners have a much lower likelihood of war.  In our little part of the world, we all have better toys as a result.  

Consolidated Leo posted:

 

I always stopped at Radio Shack when I went to the mall just to see what they were up to. You would walk in the store and hurry toward the back to get away from the cell phones and TV sets. When you got past the batteries and into the wire section, then you could spend some time learning about what you might want to play around with next. I believe the last time I was in there they were selling Arduino kits.

Sears used to sell houses. They're not around anymore either. But I know of a couple of Sears houses that have stood the test of time.

I used to also frequent the RS stores here and just go in the back and snoop around. As I said earlier I usually always ended up with something to purchase after snooping was completed.

As for Sears houses, we probably still have some of those standing here in KC, but Sears itself is also now gone from the area. Last time I looked the nearest one was in Topeka, if it is still there that's also about 65 miles away.

I certainly agree with the jeans and office chairs and many other items like that!

We still have a pretty good train store here that carries O gauge. I try to buy as much there as I can to support them so they can stay open. They don't have much in the way of electronic type stuff though. They have some wire, switches, terminal strips, tools, etc, but that is about it. It's a good train store though!

rtr12 posted:

I did a search for RS stores this morning as well. They all seem to be franchise dealers in appliance stores and such, and all are located in small towns quite far from the KC area where I live. None left in the KC area as I was thinking. Nearest one was about 60 miles away in Osage City, KS. That's a bit too far for me and who knows what they will have when you get there?

You might want to run by this store at 41st and Main in Kansas City.  It's right between downtown and the Plaza.  They have stocked just about anything I've ever needed for my trains.  All the little electrical components like resistors, capacitors, wiring and soldering supplies.  Unlike RS, the people working there know electronics.  I recommend the place.  You will never miss Radio Shack again.

http://www.eskc.com/Default.asp

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

"Alexa play with my layout."

"Alexa turn on my trains."

That is just an example of what artificial intelligence is going to do to us. 

I believe we are already there.