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A forum member recently contacted me regarding how to mount leds right on his control panel to show the position of various layout turnouts. He needed two types; one type for standard Lionel 022 switches and a second for DZ-1000 controlled switches such as RCS and Gargraves. The result was a couple of new pcb designs which I figured I would put on the forum in case other operators have similar needs.

Many O scale operators like to substitute a toggle switch for the normal OEM turnout control, for reasons of looks or saving panel space. But a common problem with this is how to know which position the turnout is in, particularly if it is not easily visible. This can be very inconvenient, especially if the switches are not of the non-derailing type. These compact indicator boards provide an easy-to-interpret solution that mounts right on the control panel and shows at a glance which position the switch is in by means of a red or green led.

A full size momentary SPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) toggle switch functions well, but neither it nor the Lionel remote lend themselves to locating on the track plan due to their size. But a “micro” size toggle switch works great for this. The MAIN reason for using a momentary switch is so that once the switch is thrown and released, the control circuit is open and will not attempt to keep the switch in the opposite position if/when the non-derailing feature is triggered.

These small indicator boards can be mounted right at each switch on the track plan, or grouped in a designated area on the control panel. One variant uses a single bi-color red-green led to show turnout position. Another uses individual red & green leds. Both have the same functionality and are ideal for small 3mm bezel mounted leds; though any size led can be used. The leds are the only part that is visible on top of the panel; the wiring and circuit board is all concealed on the underside.

R2.1 version (shown below) is for use with Lionel 022/072 switches, and any similar types that use an internal SPDT switch to tell the circuitry which position the switch is currently in. It can either be assembled with a single bi-color CC led, or with two separate leds per user preference.

9-Crop

R3.1 version (shown below) is specifically intended for turnouts operated by the Z-Stuff DZ-1000 switch machine, including those made by RCS, Curtis and Gargraves. The internal circuitry of the DZ-1000 machine prevents the use of a single bi-color led. Different circuitry than R2.1 is required and separate red and green leds are used. It is reversible and can be built either as a type A for machines mounted on RH switches, or type B for machines mounted on LH switches. In both cases the indicator led color will match that of the DZ-1000 mounted led.

3-Crop

Both the above versions provide the same indications and functionality. Both circuit boards are only 12 x 22 mm in size. Besides the leds there is only 2 other components on each board. Hookup is simple requiring only 3 light #26 wires hooked directly to the momentary SPDT toggle switch. This is convenient if the toggle switch is mounted on the panel near the led location. No outside power is needed to operate the board, power is supplied by the switch operating circuit. Power consumption is less than 15ma each. Full user instructions are included.

Gerber files are included for both board designs below for those who wish to order their own. Optionally I can provide bare boards for simple assembly, contact me offline for more information. There is no BOM as they are both dirt simple; values are shown right on the boards. Easy stuff.

Revised Pdf files are also included providing suggestions for building and using both board styles several posts down.

Let me know if any questions.

Rod

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Last edited by Rod Stewart
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I am the forum member to whom Rod refers in the above post. I use both Lionel O22 switches as well as Gar Graves and Ross switches with DZ-1000 switch motors. I bench tested prototypes of these systems on my equipment and then placed a large order with Rod. He rapidly completed my order, and it is on its way to me as I type this post. I also find the cost to be reasonable.

Rod is an honest man with GREAT customer service.

Hey Randy, Carl and Mark; thanks for the kind words! I always try to be helpful and fair with anything I offer; usually it works out pretty well.

I forgot to add the circuit diagrams to the original post, so here they are for any folks interested. They are dirt simple of course. The DZ-1000 shown is the Type A variant; Type B is just the mirror image which results when the board is flipped and built on the B side.

The DZ-1000 Type A circuit:

DZ1000 Circuit Snip R3.0

The Lionel 022 type circuit:

Lionel Circuit Snip R2.1

Rod

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  • DZ1000 Type A Circuit Snip R3.0
  • Lionel Circuit Snip R2.1
@ENichter posted:

Used bipolar led's422Tortoise Wiring

Thanks Eric for this. So as I see it the tortoise is controlled by simply reversing the DC connections from one polarity to the opposite. And the bi-polar led simply senses which direction the current is flowing. Looks pretty easy and no additional circuit board is needed as far as I can tell. Question: is there any additional load resistor in the circuit anywhere, or does the internal resistance of the tortoise motor provide that?

VADarthDad; are you copying this?

Rod

@VADarthDad posted:

My question was probably not applicable.  Wondered if the pwb would have made it easier to not have as many wires to the switch/led/etc. for the tortise application and might it dress-up the back of the switchpanel.

No worries; it's been a good discussion and I for one have learned a lot about Tortoise machines. It's pretty simple to wire them up with led indicators. Doesn't get any easier than that!

Rod

The resistance of the Tortoise stall motor is 600 Ohms so no current limiting resistor is needed.  The motors receive continuous current, so the LEDs stay lit.



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I power mine using a 14VAC supply and 2 diodes (#3) and power trackside dwarf signals in series with the motor.  You can even have both trackside signals and panel LEDs in series with the motor (#4).
Diagrams are from Circuitron.
Bob

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@GeoPeg posted:

How about Fastrack? Can either of those be directly used with Fastrack switches?

George

Fair question George. I have not tried them with Fastrack switches, but I have a couple here in boxes, so I may dig one out and give it a whirl. I suspect the Lionel indicator version may work because I believe that Fastrack switches are equipped with a position sensing micro-switch.

@Rod Stewart  It may be helpful in your testing to examine the RSC Lights terminal on the bottom of FasTrack Switches (turnouts).

Depending on the direction of the turnout, RSC Lights outputs either +5VDC or -5VDC relative to the GND terminal (track Common).

Based on comments by others, it may be able to drive a few LEDs.

I'm unsure if this output is already current limited.

Last edited by SteveH
@SteveH posted:

@Rod Stewart  It may be helpful in your testing to examine the RSC Lights terminal on the bottom of FasTrack Switches (turnouts).

Depending on the direction of the turnout, RSC Lights outputs either +5VDC or -5VDC relative to the GND terminal (track Common).

Based on comments by others, it may be able to drive a few LEDs.

I'm unsure if this output is already current limited.

Thanks for this info Steve. It may turn out that this RSC output can easily drive a single bi-color led all by itself feeding to ground. I will try this approach first. If that doesn't work I am fairly sure that the 022 type board will work with a CC two color led installed. Tomorrow is the big game so it might have to wait a day or two.

A number of years ago, I was able to drive a couple of red and green leds from the bottom of the fastrack switch. It was really simple once I figured it out. I'll look here in a bit and see if I still have those LEDS laying around.
I tore apart one of the switch activators to figure out the circuity.



***Update***
I found my sample I had built awhile back. It's a red and a green LED connected to a single 470 ohm resistor. The resistor lead is in the RSC terminal and the black wire is in the ground terminal.
DSCN0205
DSCN0204
DSCN0203
Remember red and green LEDS are different voltages. Red is 1.7v and green is 2.3v. As you can see the red LED is brighter than the green LED. So, consequently the red LED needs a little higher resistor to equal out the brightness. But it does work going directly to the terminals on the bottom of the switch with no adverse effects to the switch.
I'm running Command and Control switches with no manual activators (wireless). So this is how I plan on identifing how the switch is thrown.

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Last edited by Jayhawk500

jayhawk500; thanks for that input. That confirms that the RSC output can directly drive leds. I am going to experiment with a single bi-color led and see if that works ok; then see of leds can be easily adapted to a momentary SPDT toggle switch that one could mount on a control panel, independent of the Lionel actuator.

Also as a matter of convenience attached is a pdf of the the Tortoise Quick Start manual below, for anyone who would like to have it. the bi-color and parallel opposed led indicator options are both covered very well in the document.

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Here's a close-up of the PCB.

FasTrack Controller PCB

There's little to it.  Four LEDs, each with a series resistor.  Each pair of Red LEDs (wired in parallel) has a single rectifier diode in series with them. The Green LEDs are wired similarly, just for the opposite 5V polarity.

The other circuit is 2 momentary push-buttons that short either OUT or THRU to GND when activated by the lever handle.

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  • FasTrack Controller PCB
@Rod Stewart posted:

Eric not sure if you have measured the current draw of a Tortoise when operating, but it must be no more than 20ma to not smoke the led. Any idea what it is?

Also, does the led stay lit after the switch is thrown, or does it shut off?

Sorry for the stupid questions but I have no experience with Tortoise machines at all.

Rod

No resistors needed, the Led's do stay on. Got the idea from a fellow OGR member years ago. I have been using them for about 8 years with no issues.

This is on youtube from laidoffsick

Control Panel for a Hi-Rail layout - YouTube

434742

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@SteveH posted:

There's little to it.  Four LEDs, each with a series resistor.  Each pair of Red LEDs (wired in parallel) has a single rectifier diode in series with them. The Green LEDs are wired similarly, just for the opposite 5V polarity.

The other circuit is 2 momentary push-buttons that short either OUT or THRU to GND when activated by the lever handle.

Thanks for that Steve; never had one apart. That helps understand it. It's nice to see there is a 4 wire screw connector mounted inside. That means using a longer wire to connect to the switch is a piece of cake (since the included wire is always about a foot or more too short!). No junction blocks needed under the layout. Sure wish I had known that a few years back when I had my Fastrack layout under construction.

Resounding success! The attached video proves out two theories for Fastrack switches. 1) The switch can be controlled by a simple momentary SPDT toggle switch. So you could use toggles mounted on a control panel instead of the Lionel actuators. 2) A red-green bi-color led connected to the yellow RSC wire with a limiting resistor to ground black, indicates position nicely. So this could also be control panel mounted right at the switch symbol on the trackplan. You could of course use two opposed parallel leds as Jayhawk500 did earlier. I used a 470R series resistor in the video clip, but given that its only +/- 5V DC, you could also use a 220R. I tested this value later and it makes the leds a tad brighter. 220R would be my choice. The led and resistor would be very esy to add to the toggle switch at the panel. No other external power or wiring is needed; only the 4 wires (red-grn-yel-blk) from the switch itself, same as the Lionel actuator used. Dead easy.

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Videos (1)
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Last edited by Rod Stewart

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