Legacy Locos are LOCO!

@Rapid Transit Holmes I feel your pain- honestly I really do. Generally, I cannot stand when something that should work- doesn't. If we get specific, I really dislike when the problem you have mentioned occurs! Which just happened tonight with my Legacy SD60 and Legacy GP35....impoortant caveat with the SD60, I just installed a new power truck- which, one would think "hey it's new- should work like new!" unfortunately, that's not the case, there seems to be a mechanical issue with the sd60- it takes more turns of the throttle to start than it should. All that said, before tonight, I haven't personally encountered MU or lash-up issues with two or more legacy locos- but I've seen some people with issues, previously.

I haven't used a cab1L, I use a cab2 and sometimes my cab 1. From what I've read in the 1L user manual, creating an MU, or lash-up, is similar to the process used with the cab 1.

The reason those who previously offered advice were focusing on momentum is due to the fact that, when operating a Legacy Loco with a cab1L or cab1, the momentum isn't just momentum- it sets the speed steps. From the cab1L manual:

L=32 speed steps

M= 100 speed steps

H= 100 speed steps with added momentum

Unfortunately, from the last 45 or so minutes I spent researching this issue, I believe the issue may be due to your cab1L/base1L. Apparently, the cab1L, just like the cab 1, still provides relative speed steps instead of absolute speed steps. See this thread for more info regarding why I think that may be the case. If it is the case, basically what it means is those discrepancies in start-up speed and slowing down, the mis-matching, is because the cab1L doesn't allow full-Legacy feature access. Specifically, it is unable to communicate in terms of the absolute speed steps of odyssey2 and thus your legacy locos cannot sync their speeds.

If you have the F7A, you're probably wondering why that would work with the F7B but the GP30 won't. When Lionel produces AA, ABA, etc... type sets, they're specifically made to work together via some combo of similar gearing, same motors, and I assume possibly digital communication. Older TMCC AA, ABA, ABBA, AB combos could still work together due to the aforementioned, despite original TMCC not being able to create MU's.

I do have two possible suggestions that MIGHT work:

1.) Try giving them the same TMCC ID, aka same engine #. See page 38 in your manual . Not guaranteeing it will work, but worth a shot. Once you have given them the same ID, set the momentum/speed steps to L

2.) If you haven't already, set the momentum for both locos to L. Create your train and then set the TR at L.

If you have a DCS system, I might have another possible work-around for you.

Hope something works out for you and I wish I could've been more helpful.

Steve

Run the engines with another Legacy engine if you have one. If one runs with that third engine then the other one may have to be reprogrammed for the correct gear ratio. Not something you can do but it will confirm which one is the problem.

Pete

@Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

I have two brand new units that will not "lashup".  The units are GP30 CGW 201 (2133770) and F7B 114B (2033268), and I'm using the CAB-1L.  These new locomotives have no means of switching Odyssey on or off.  Operating the units, uncoupled, the F7B starts earlier and at a higher rate of speed than the GP30 but the Geep requires more turns of the throttle to bring it to a stop.  Since setting "stall" is no longer an option under wonderful "Legacy", I have no means of adjustment.

Sounds like the GP30 has cruise disabled somehow.  A Legacy locomotive should start on the first speed step.  If that isn't happening, either cruise is disabled or something is broken.

I recently had a similar issue with a older Legacy LionMaster SD90M (DCDS) and a Dash 9 (RCMC). I’ve always used a Cab-2 so I set this MU up in the cab-2 for a club member. He went to use a Cab-1L and they started to fight each other, witch wasn’t that surprising I was already skeptical as they were different eras of Legacy. But using the Cab-2 they worked fine. Then just last weekend he was back to the cab-1L with little issues

StevefromPA, Thanks for the advice.  I tried all of your suggestions before, save one, with no result.  However, I ran to the test track this morning with a song in my heart to try reprogramming both units with the same ID.  That didn't work either.  Thanks, anyway.

Norton, I don't have another Legacy locomotive of similar type.  As you said, running with another loco would only point up which has the problem for which there is no fix.  Thanks, anyway.

GunrunnerJohn, Thanks for reviewing my problem, again.  Per your earlier advice, I wrote to "Dave" weeks ago but, as of this date, have received no reply.  Thanks, again, anyway.

Legacy is too techy for me, I'm done with it.  TMCC and DCS both work beautifully.

@Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

Legacy is too techy for me, I'm done with it.  TMCC and DCS both work beautifully.

Dude don't give up.  Legacy is no more TECHY than DCS and is the Cats Meow IMO when it comes to running trains.   You really need to find someone with another Legacy engine and find which one has the incorrect scale speed as Pete stated.  If it's under Warranty Lionel will fix it for free including shipping.  Lionel will even reprogram the RCMC board for you without the engine, just send them the board.  No need to risk shipping the entire engine.

@superwarp1 posted:

Dude don't give up.  Legacy is no more TECHY than DCS and is the Cats Meow IMO when it comes to running trains.   You really need to find someone with another Legacy engine and find which one has the incorrect scale speed as Pete stated.  If it's under Warranty Lionel will fix it for free including shipping.  Lionel will even reprogram the RCMC board for you without the engine, just send them the board.  No need to risk shipping the entire engine.

What's a "RCMC board"?

It's apparent from all I've learned from this ordeal that the GP30 is the problem because it does not respond to throttle commands as folks say it should and as the F7B does.  If I pull the RCMC board, whatever that is, will Lionel fix and return it?  They haven't responded to my email...  What's the procedure?

Call them, I find it much more responsive.

Steve, if you have more Legacy engines, they don’t have to be the same type. Steam, electric, diesel, no matter. A handful of Legacy engines don’t have tach readers and only lash up with the same engine but the majority will run together. Thats was one of that main reasons Lionel created Legacy, multi unit running like MTH PS2/3.

Pete

@superwarp1 posted:

Dude don't give up.  Legacy is no more TECHY than DCS and is the Cats Meow IMO when it comes to running trains.   You really need to find someone with another Legacy engine and find which one has the incorrect scale speed as Pete stated.

From the initial description, at least to me, the defective engine is obvious, the GP30.  As long as Odyssey II is enabled, a Legacy locomotive should start to move at the first speed step.  The only reason it won't is either Odyssey is disabled or it's broken.

@Rapid Transit Holmes  No problem- just trying to help. definitely go with @superwarp1's advice about not giving up- Legacy really is worth it for even a single legacy loco- you already have two, one of which, unfortunately, is defective.  GunRunner and Norton are among a very, very small handful of forum members who are incredibly knowledgable when it comes to Lionel Legacy/TMCC and MTH DCS and all things related. Their posts are the ones to which I take notice in threads involving trouble shooting and their advice hasn't steered me wrong yet.

That said, @gunrunnerjohn or @Norton , I assume I was incorrect regarding the Legacy 1L info that I provided to Rapid Transit Holmes? If so, Rapid Transit- I am terribly sorry for that misinformation.

BTW: the issue with my CSX SD60 is the old truck having been worn in and the replacement truck being rather stiff. Runs decently on it's own but takes longer to increase in speed vs my other legacy locos. I greased the gearbox, the gears, oiled the axles, and still nada. When I push each truck by hand the difference is very apparent. Already know what to do to fix it but it's just a real pain. Ah, C'est la vie

Rereading everything this is my guess as to what may be going on. If you notice the GP has a 21 in the year for the product number. Indicating it was made this year with the LCP2 board. The F7B has a 20 in its first to digits and since the new PCBs started this year I bet it has a RCMC.

there was already a problem with the new E-7/8(9)’s when the powered AA sets arrived. I don’t think it’s be a far stretch if the speed coding in the GP 30’s was also a little skewed.

now this is just MHO everyone else may have another idea

@StevefromPA posted:

@Rapid Transit Holmes  No problem- just trying to help. definitely go with @superwarp1's advice about not giving up- Legacy really is worth it for even a single legacy loco- you already have two, one of which, unfortunately, is defective.  GunRunner and Norton are among a very, very small handful of forum members who are incredibly knowledgable when it comes to Lionel Legacy/TMCC and MTH DCS and all things related. Their posts are the ones to which I take notice in threads involving trouble shooting and their advice hasn't steered me wrong yet.

Steve, I hang on every word issuing from the mouth of GunrunnerJohn and dump my problems in his lap before pursuing solutions based on his advice.

Thanks to you and all for your well considered responses!