Lighted Sign?

I don't see any photos

C W Burfle posted:

I don't see any photos

You have squint real hard.  LOL

I've been trying to load the photo for 45 minutes...not loading for some reason but I will keep trying

Stuck on "Queued"

Still cannot load photo...maybe try tomorrow..

Here is the photo...

From Greenberg's Marx trains II

409 crossing blinker. My guess it would have a track contractor to flash the bulbs. 

Great information!   Are the bulbs still available?   If so, where would I find them?  Thanks

Not sure of the bulb number but here's a place that deals in light bulbs for Lionel I'm sure if you contact them they can help you.

Light bulbs

Also a check a hobby shop for screw base red bulbs.

Thanks.   I googled "Marx 409 bulbs" and found several sources for replacement bulbs. 

Well, finally installed the red bulbs  and obtained new contact wires from Robert Grossman and found that only one bulb lights up and stays on constantly when the transformer is on. It is supposed to blink when the train rolls over the contacts but that does not happen.   Both bulbs are good since I swapped them to see if one of them was blown so no problem there.  I use a lockon attached to the center rail for power and the two Marx contacts attached to outer rails about a foot apart.

It sounds like I need to do some electrical troubleshooting or just get a new sign.  

We need a picture, I remember those working fine. Probably a simple fix.

  A picture of the sign and its connections?   I used the information in the link below if that will suffice.         

http://www.thortrains.net/maracc3.html

"...and obtained new contact wires from Robert Grossman."

We need to know who Robert Grossman is, what he sells, and a picture of the item that you bought.

That signal is simply a pair of passive lamp sockets, each with its own hot terminal, and with a common return terminal.  By using a Lockon, (and assuming that you are using two wires, one to the center terminal and one to a side terminal) you are providing "hot" from the center rail, and "return" from the outside rail to one of two sockets. You are energizing one of the lamps continuously.

The signal requires a "hot" connection, either from the center rail (not such a good idea) or from a fixed voltage terminal (appropriate for the lamps you select) from your transformer that shares the same common as the track circuit.

Then, a short insulated contact is placed over the outside rail for each lamp. The rolling wheels and axle of the train bridge the outside rail on one side to the insulated contact on the opposite rail, completing the circuit for each of the two lamps. The flashing will not be even, or prototypical. It's just a toy, after all.

Lionel offered a similar signal, the #154 (and offspring) and energized the two lamps with what they call a #154C contactor. It gets you the same two insuilated sections, all in one easy-to-snap-on device.

If you were to Google the circuitry discussion of the #409, you would find this tutorial:

http://www.thortrains.net/maracc3.html

If you want/need a more steady, 30 ipm flash rate with 50% duty cycle, which is "close enough" to the real thing, there are several manufacturers who offer a small electronic circuit board that provides outputs to get that effect.

Uh, the tutorial link you provided is the same one I submitted above your answer.  Robert Bloom is a Marx train part purveyor exclusively and he sent me the correct replacement parts for the 409 sign, notably two "shoes" that fit over the rails with wires that attach to the sign (left and right) with the lock-on connection in the middle.  In short, I am using the correct parts as recommended in the link.  I am not, however, using two wires to the center lock-on and therein may lie my problem.   I will investigate and report back if this is solves or at least partially solves my problem.  Thank you for your assistance.

I posted at about the same time you did. Two messages passing in the night syndrome.

No, Robert Bloom is not Robert Grossman.

Sorry that I did not understand you when you said "contact wires." I did not know you meant "insulated track contacts."

You do not need two wires to the lockon, only the terminal that connects to the center rail.  As I said, that is the second-best method, the best method being a fixed voltage feed from the transformer.

One of the insulated sections is possibly defective, or mis-aligned, making inadvertent contact with the rail beneath, causing one lamp to light up. It should only light up when there is a set of wheels at that location. Can you confirm with a meter that the lead from that contactor is not continuous with the rail beneath?  If you pop one of the contacts off the rail, does the light go out?

Hook it up exactly as the website shows, and then set the track voltage to a midpoint, roll a freight car back and forth at the two locations of insulated contactors, and watch the lamps. One is already lit, as you say, which is a "ground fault." The other one should blink as the wheels pass. Does that happen?

The center rail should go to center post and two shoes should go, one to each outer posts.  Check your little shoes to make sure they are insulated from the outside rail.  Make sure the insulating washers are on both sides of the base on the screw.

Gene Anstine

Thank you gentlemen for your expert commentary.   Sorry Mr. Bloom for the misnomer.  Robert "Grossman" is the Marx parts vendor and a very helpful individual as well. I will investigate using you insights and report back at a future date.   Just to recap, only one light is on constantly when the transformer is energizing the track and it does not blink when the train passes over the insulated track contacts.