LionChief Plus 2.0

@Mike Wyatt posted:

I bought a LC Plus 2.0 "Baby K4", and was impressed by the features and low price for those features. Of course it is NOT "Scale", but at the price was a bargain.   (The only negative I found was that the loco's trailing truck would derail when backing particularly over a switch.  This was quickly remedied by adding a 1/4 oz. sticky weight to the trailing truck.)

I just received a 2134100 Pennsylvania LionChief Plus 2.0 RS-3 diesel.  Terrific!  It runs perfectly, has improved sound over the previous RS-3 (I own two of the original LC Plus version from 2016 - SKU: 6-38816), and pulls well with its dual can motors and hefty weight. I am running it w/ Cab 1 (TMCC) control, but it can be controlled conventionally by a transformer, using Legacy Cab 2, the Universal Remote (perfect for kids), even a telephone or tablet, AND Voice Control (which I have not tried yet.)

Of course it is less detailed than (say) the Atlas RS-3 with the added-on details, but the cruise is also far better than the Atlas.  I liked it so much that I ordered a second one!! (which will require a road number change)  I think Lionel has a winner in the Plus 2.0 line.

I think its great! ! ! I run scale semi-scale and no were near scale and love them all. Also many engines look just as good in semi scale as their larger brothers its all about the compression and how it was done.

The LC+ 2.0 are the first Lionchief locomotives I'm taking a second look at.  I bought a couple of the Dockside switchers with LC+ 2.0, a real bargain for the features.

I run semi-scale.  I have five LC+ 2.0 locomotives. They run very well indeed. I have the GG1, NYC F3, Pennsylvania F3, Pennsylvania Berkshire, and the Baby K4.

I just picked up the Pennsylvania LC+2 RS-3 also.  I love it. Good attention to detail, sounds great, runs really well… Couldn’t be happier.  I have an older iPhone that I keep charged on the layout. I’m finding that I use the phone app to run LC compatible engines more and more.  

I have had this loco for now over two years, and the Railsounds quit working.  No problem, I didn't want the Polar Express sounds anyway.

Question: (I never thought I would say this, but...) the Polar Express LC 2.0 smoke will run you out of the room!!  For years, Lionel was playing catch-up to MTH in terms of smoke, but no more.)

I don't think there is a way to lower the smoke volume (just to shut off entirely), is there?

LC+ 2.0 is an answer to the command control crisis for those who don't already have command control equipment from before.

John

can anyone please explain the difference between LC Plus and Plus 2?

I have the plus engines and plus with Bluetooth and just run with conventional transformers.  Would Plus 2 provide me with more features?

Thanks, Bob

@TrainCzar posted:

can anyone please explain the difference between LC Plus and Plus 2?

I have the plus engines and plus with Bluetooth and just run with conventional transformers.  Would Plus 2 provide me with more features?

Thanks, Bob

Lionchief Plus 2.0 added a TMCC radio receiver- so it also accepts TMCC or Legacy control.

Same basic features as previous Lionchief Plus RF only, and later Lionchief Plus Bluetooth. These also have a physical transformer (AKA conventional)/remote switch.

Another difference- Lionchief plus 2.0 dropped the transformer/remote physical switch and 100% now depends on the engine auto detecting lack of TMCC or Legacy radio signal to then go into transformer AKA conventional control mode.

Thanks for the clear explanation.

so without  TMCC or Legacy control I will get no benefit and be buying something I don't need.

@TrainCzar posted:

Thanks for the clear explanation.

so without  TMCC or Legacy control I will get no benefit and be buying something I don't need.

I think you’ll still be able to use bluetooth and/or Lionel app for control.

@TrainCzar posted:

so without  TMCC or Legacy control I will get no benefit and be buying something I don't need.

No.  Just the opposite.  Using TMCC/Legacy controllers (Cab and Base -1, -1L, -2) is optional, i.e., not necessary, with LC Plus 2.0.

In their default mode they respond to control via SmartPhone App and Bluetooth, or alternatively Universal Remote, regardless.

Mike

The attached chart shows the differences and features between the various Lionel engines and control systems.

LC+ 2.0 works fine with the LC app or Cab1, 1L, Cab 2. Default is bluetooth via the app or remote.

They will not work in conventional but you can just use the LC app.

Only one engine can be controlled at a time via the app.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

LC+ 2.0 works fine with the LC app or Cab1, 1L, Cab 2. Default is bluetooth via the app or remote.

They will not work in conventional but you can just use the LC app.

I agree 100% that conventional is not perfect and most definitely has issues- but is an advertised feature of the LC+2.0

Do the LC+ 2.0 engines work with the simpler Lionchief remote? I recall reading that they will work with those, the Cab-1, Cab-1L, or smartphone/tablet app, correct?

@raising4daughters posted:

Do the LC+ 2.0 engines work with the simpler Lionchief remote? I recall reading that they will work with those, the Cab-1, Cab-1L, or smartphone/tablet app, correct?

They will work with the Universal Remote just fine.

@MartyE posted:

They will work with the Universal Remote just fine.

Thanks Marty, that's what I thought. I don't need a new engine right now but next purchase will be an LC+2. Hoping for a Pacemaker-themed Hudson like the Legacy Mohawk OR a Lionmaster Hudson. Maybe a set of Alcos. Either way, while I have 2 original Cab-1s, I keep one in my spare bedroom to run my ceiling layout. I know they're hard to find these days, and it's nice having multiple remotes when guests are around. I have an LC+ (not 2.0) Mikado and love the LC remote simplicity for those new to O Gauge. Had my 90 y/o uncle running it last Christmas before he passed away.

I'm not saying Lionchief Plus 2.0 as a platform isn't good. I've praised the fact of the unified platform you are basically getting Legacy electronics- just with LC+2.0 TMCC only firmware. Even that is not the deal breaker.

What is the deal breaker is the price range VS the mechanical build quality, engineering, and details of the resulting LC+2.0 locos- where many cases for less than $100 price difference, you could have the next tier up Legacy model.

Take the first one I got which was the LC+2.0 NKP Berkshire. The tooling is so worn out that the diecast details like the connecting rods and crossheads have raised grainy surface like the mold has pits and other defects. It's not a one off, all are like that that came through the local shop. The shell mounting screws, one was a totally different screw because the factory stripped out the hole and just put in a larger screw!!! For a $499 MSRP, this was nothing more than a badly made worn out tooled Berk Jr chassis. Don't even get me started on the Lionchief steam drawbar electrical connector failures.

OK, fine, so look at diesels. Different problems but still problems on the Lionchief Plus ET44. It's got the same toy like stamped frame with integrated handrails. Sure, it's a step up from the really bad small motor and junk truck drive assembly of the Lionchief ET44, but let's not pretend that the new all flanged wheel slide left and right terrible design for gearing of the LC+2.0 version is a good thing long term either. And again, you pay through the nose for the privilege of owning this engine. It's not a Legacy engine, doesn't have real Legacy features, but is just barely cheaper than a Legacy equivalent engine.

I bought these engines when they first came out to have hands on knowledge and reverse engineer them since there was no published diagrams or schematics or parts lists. But other than that- they are terrible value proposition for an engine.

As always, your wallet, your railroad, and your rules. Just be informed and do some homework before you drop down your hard earned cash on a yet another big L product. Even more so, consider where you are 1 year after purchase with no or very limited support.

Regarding diesels, I agree with Vernon that you're better off stepping up to full Legacy.

With Steam it's not so easy...  I like "modern" main-line steam locos: Hudsons, Berkshires, etc.  I'm also quite limited with regard to space.  Not only do the Legacy steam locos cost more, they are physically larger and typically require much larger curves.

If you're content to run smaller early 20th-Century "tea kettles" like Moguls, Ten Wheelers, etc., AND you have room on your platform for scale rolling stock, 1:48 structures, etc. then the smaller Legacy locos are a good choice for a little more money.  For my part, I was overjoyed with the debut of LionChief Plus because finally, we had traditional-sized trains with good operating characteristics and a robust, kid-friendly control system!

I'm not a huge fan of the Berkshire Jr., and worn tooling is a bummer.  But there's nothing mechanically inferior about the previously-issued LionChief Plus Mikados, Hudsons, and Pacifics.  The Camelback and A5 switcher have already "graduated" to full Legacy, probably because they were scale-sized models.

I hope Lionel continues to offer traditionally-sized steam with LC+ 2.0, and even reissues some of the RailKing locos with this system.  My $.02.

@Ted S posted:

I hope Lionel continues to offer traditionally-sized steam with LC+ 2.0, and even reissues some of the RailKing locos with this system.  My $.02.

Sure would be nice to see the Rail King Berkshire issued with LC+2.0. I'd be in on that especially given the commentary above about the LC+2.0 Berk's details and aesthetics.

@TrainCzar posted:

Thanks for the clear explanation.

so without  TMCC or Legacy control I will get no benefit and be buying something I don't need.

That’s where Lionel is smart.  You really don’t need anything other than track, power and a smartphone to run all their locomotives.  Of course some of the advanced feature may not be accessible but you can run the locomotives.  MTH should have started to include Bluetooth by now.  

Lionchief 2.0 is a great way to go,  i believe you get the most bang for your buck!

@Mike Wyatt posted:

Question: (I never thought I would say this, but...) the Polar Express LC 2.0 smoke will run you out of the room!!  For years, Lionel was playing catch-up to MTH in terms of smoke, but no more.)

I don't think there is a way to lower the smoke volume (just to shut off entirely), is there?

You can change the resistor value in the smoke unit and change the smoke volume.  Obviously, there's no way to change it without some physical alterations.

Just bought the new Lionel doodlebug Lionchief plus 2.0. Great model with lots of features. Runs very smoothly and puts out a lot of smoke.

"As always, your wallet, your railroad, and your rules. Just be informed and do some homework before you drop down your hard earned cash on a yet another big L product. Even more so, consider where you are 1 year after purchase with no or very limited support."

It's not like any other three rail manufacturer offers more support and better initial quality for most products.  When it comes to a full line of three rail products, two annual catalogs and a broad dealer network, right now, Lionel is pretty much the only game in town.  They are the only manufacturer of sets for new hobbyists.  They are by no means perfect, but the fact that they've survived when others (e.g., MTH, K-Line) have disappeared or drastically faded tells us something about customer satisfaction.   I know that the standard rejoinder is brand loyalty.  120 years is a long time for brand loyalty to persist if the product generally was inferior and unsatisfactory.  If Lionel was half as bad as some would have us believe, they would have been long gone too, or a shadow of their former self, like MTH.

@Landsteiner posted:

"As always, your wallet, your railroad, and your rules. Just be informed and do some homework before you drop down your hard earned cash on a yet another big L product. Even more so, consider where you are 1 year after purchase with no or very limited support."

It's not like any other three rail manufacturer offers more support and better initial quality for most products.  When it comes to a full line of three rail products, two annual catalogs and a broad dealer network, right now, Lionel is pretty much the only game in town.  They are the only manufacturer of sets for new hobbyists.  They are by no means perfect, but the fact that they've survived when others (e.g., MTH, K-Line) have disappeared or drastically faded tells us something about customer satisfaction.   I know that the standard rejoinder is brand loyalty.  120 years is a long time for brand loyalty to persist if the product generally was inferior and unsatisfactory.  If Lionel was half as bad as some would have us believe, they would have been long gone too, or a shadow of their former self, like MTH.

IMHO

MTH’s SLOW crawl to its grave was instigatby MW’s ever-growing ego.