Lionel 1033

It isn't so much as number of accessories as it is concurrent current draw. 1033 has a 5 amp breaker, but a continuous load of 3-4 amps would be appropriate.

There is not a number that can easily be assigned to this. Things to considered. How many light bulbs are being powered? Are the accessories all going to powered at once? How much current does each accessory draw. Are you also running your train from this transformer? The 1033 is rather small. Rated 90 watts but this is input power. Output probably closer to 60 watts. If the transformer runs hot it is at its limit. If it trips its breaker it is past it.

Forest.

1. Thanks. Actually 3-4 bulbs, and 2 button controlled (Whistling Station and Marx crossing w/bell), so I think I am ok. No clue how much current each one draws

The 1033 transformer has an older style circuit breaker which is not very reliable. Protect the transformer with an external 5 amp circuit breaker and you will have no worries. You can probably find a suitable circuit breaker at the auto parts store.

David Johnston, how do attach the external circuit breaker to the 1033?

The circuit breaker goes between the common post (generally post A on the 1033) and everything that was formerly attached to that post.

I agree with David Johnstons post. Over the years I have repaired, upgraded and reconditioned many postwar transformers. On over 50% of the 1033‘s I’ve worked on have had inoperable circuit breakers. If I was using a 1033 with the original circuit breaker, I would test it on a regular basis. Jim Lawson

@O Gauge Jim, I too service transformers, but do not have a 50% failure rate on the original circuit breakers in 1033's or similar. I'm interested in your test criteria if you'd share.

Note: This is not an argument against external breakers. Any transformer, classic or modern, should have external breakers and TVS diodes installed as appropriate for the application.

Good Morning BMoran, when testing the circuit breaker on a 1033 transformer, I put a dead short across the output terminals A and U using a #12 copper wire and slowly bring the voltage up and I like to see the circuit breaker open within five seconds, but seven max and normally prior to me getting to the full output voltage. Am I too conservative, maybe, but I had rather error on the side of safety. Somewhere in my archives I have something in regards to the amount of time Lionel specifications require, however based on my experience as a long time electrical engineer, involved in electric power such as motors, small and large transformers with some transformers having primary voltage as high as 15,000 V and the design and manufacture of high-voltage electrical distribution systems for electric utilities, I came up with my own circuit breaker testing procedure and guidelines.

As for a 1033, when I repair or rebuild I also add a diode to replace the rectifier disc and a new power cord.  I have found a replacement internal circuit breaker that I think I can fit inside the case, however with the time to re-wire and buy the circuit breaker it makes the price for the smaller transformer prohibitive.

I purchased during last fall (10) 1033 transformers to upgrade and recondition to sell at our late winter and Springtime  time train meets in upper New England. Of that (10),  4 had inoperable circuit breakers based on my specs. 

Like you, I tell anybody who has any electronic equipment on their layout, if they are using any post war transformers usually KW’s or ZW’s they should include a fast break external circuit breaker and a TVS diode.  I keep a few of each on hand.

I live in Wilton, NH 03086. Could you give me your location. The reason being, I sometimes get requests from people a great distance away to rebuild a KW or ZW transformer. In those cases the shipping both ways becomes almost prohibitive. What I do is keep a list of other forum members that repair transformer so I can recommend someone living closer to them were shipping would not be nearly as expensive.

Hopefully I’ve answered your questions. If not please get back to me. Now that I’ve accomplished this task, I’m on my way outside to dig out of a wet, 12 inch overnight snowstorm. Have a great day, Jim Lawson

@O Gauge Jim, Thanks for your response - it explains your high failure rate. I test my classic transformer breakers to Lionel's published specifications and do restorations for the purist, but will deviate with newer internal breakers, whistle diodes, LEDs and such upon request.

For a test of a stock 1033, a 15 amp draw should trip the internal breaker in 9 to 35 seconds. We both agree, that while this protects the transformer, it is still recommended to have curated external protection on all transformer channels, classic or modern.

BTW, I am in Western NY State.

bmoran4 posted:

@O Gauge Jim, Thanks for your response - it explains your high failure rate. I test my classic transformer breakers to Lionel's published specifications and do restorations for the purist, but will deviate with newer internal breakers, whistle diodes, LEDs and such upon request.

For a test of a stock 1033, a 15 amp draw should trip the internal breaker in 9 to 35 seconds. We both agree, that while this protects the transformer, it is still recommended to have curated external protection on all transformer channels, classic or modern.

BTW, I am in Western NY State.

I found my copy of the Lionel specs for circuit breaker reaction time. Just for the fun of it, I’m gonna take the four units in which the circuit breakers did not meet my specs and retest them to the Lionel specs and I will get back to you with the results.  Jim

What are the Lionel specs and did you get to retest the four units in question? Thank you

Forest

bmoran4 posted:

For a test of a stock 1033, a 15 amp draw should trip the internal breaker in 9 to 35 seconds.

The aforementioned specs come from the Lionel Test Set Manual.

I bought a 1033 some years ago.  I used it on a simple Christmas tree oval.  The train derailed and the transformer started smoking.  It is now a display piece.

On the other hand I have an old ZW and it is worth the effort to upgrade the breaker and rectifier and maintain to rollers on this classic.  For low wattage applications I would use one of the several starter set transformers out of the modern sets I have purchased.

I am not saying a 1033 is not OK after being serviced and tested but I wouldn't use it for trains without an external breaker.  For accessories the issue of a dead short is less likely so I would be more comfortable with it for this purpose.

I always shoot for 5-7 seconds thru adjusting it internally. I have only wanted to swap one from a 1032/1033 for corrosion, but it still adjusted (looks like ****, still works as it should though, actually the second strongest of half a dozen others)  I'd be real nervous about 12 seconds.

1044 breaker meltdowns keep me from ever swapping those into a 1033. The 1044 breaker doesn't adjust either.

Napa had a 4.5a (or 6a, etc ...to about 60a) self resetting thermal breaker that can fit in the case. (power window/seat part)

 They are still thermal breakers which give a "soft trip"; allowing an averaging of amps over a few seconds vs instant action. This delay can be useful with older equipment which have very high peak amp draw at startup with heavy load or too fast, etc.   (they average 3a-3.5a alone and peak at or 5.2- 5.5a on a jackrabbit start under load)

I run heavy on wire gauge too. If you skimp you better fuse/breaker to that wire gauge vs to an output the wire can't carry easy Wiring heavy let's thermal breakers shine safely.

Near same as a fast blow fuse vs a slow blow fuse choice

  Newer or PW Lionel adj. magnetic breakers trip right at X-amps. That means if I use my modern 90w transformer and start fast with my dual can motor GG-1, or old pw 2046 Hudson, or tmcc era Rectifier w/ single open frame motor, while hauling 7 bulb lit passenger cars, it will trip the new breaker if I throttle up fast.  It may trip once the engine warms too... pita.  But the 1032/1033s thermal breakers allow the occasional peak draw to be ignored if it's short term enough.

If the thermal breaker works right, another thermal breaker doesn't help. (unless maybe it's lower amp, but then the higher amp one is useless Test it as mentioned, don't fix what ain't broke

So one engine and whistle, and 3 bulbs? A.O.K....  If the shack uses a whistle tender's relay and the transformer button vs stand alone #90 button you will (should) get a 5v boost to keep the engine from slowing while whistling. Even the 1033s "top out".  I have to run most of my O trains at 100% full throttle, but they pull fine, steady. It's only the PW 0-27 steam or can motor starter set locos that run cannonball speed and pull a Caesy Jones roll in curves.

I was wanting a ZW or two ,but admit four 1033s leads to less derails for the rookie visitors. I don't run 20ft trains on a 4.5x9 either. Maybe 15ft tops. For 15X20' room I use a KW (180w) and a Z(275w) one track each (actually auto stop anti collision blocks for a shared main on Z#D throttle too. 

Each bulb often has a wattage, or amps(ma), or a reference number, on the glass or on the base. Convert watts to amps (free online calculators and bulb charts)... add the amps. It is that simple.  You can have one thousand turnouts powered by a 2a wall wart is you only use one switch at a time. Used all together that's about +2000a

A motor and accessories isn't as predictable really, gotta measure it. A multimeter is nearly a must in this hobby too fyi (make sure it reads amps to 6a or better; 10a, not just to 1a or .10a ; peak hold reading are nice, a beep for continuity and or diodes is nice too.

Not too expensive at harbor freight Lots of threads here with more expensive brand likes too 🤑

If you run trains with sound boards a TVS is likely more important than the faster breakers imo.

That said I lost a caboose with a light derail short that a magnetic breaker would have caught (I went for a snack and coffee).  Others have had expensive units fail totally and a thermal àdd on would have saved things.  And to be honest one of each is "best".